Mennonite Measles in Texas

[Judas Maccabeus]

The only thing that is legal is to draw two vaccines into the same syringe from separate vials.

Maybe this is what JohnH heard being referred to? This would sound like a combination shot to me.

Except that is not a permitted combination. These are clearly listed.

[Judas Maccabeus]

This is speculation on my part but the Clinic runs their own compounding pharmacy and often runs their own protocols for things ranging from masking to how often staff need to wash their hands. They have enough history they basically ARE the medical authority - they are not just some random hospital that has to submit to the authority, they have their own internal research and oversight.

So who knows - perhaps they made their own combination. I am quite confident the Clinic is not flagrantly violating all kinds of laws and regulations. I am however completely confident they have a fridge with vaccines in it right by where myself and my children get weighed in. I am somewhat confident I overheard them discussing whethe, due to lack of inventory of single vaccines, they could use a combination they did have in stock.

Compounding does not extend to vaccines, that is manufacture. Their internal protocols do not override or exempt from FDA regulation. They have to submit to authority just like every other teaching hospital. You simply misheard, misunderstood or the people speaking misspoke.

They have to submit to regulations just like everyone else. They may have combination vaccines in stock, but it is not HPB/Influenz. You cannot compound vaccines.

How are you so confident such a combination doesn’t exist?

FDA product inserts are readily available and accessible. No insert/prescribing information, no licensed drug. It is that simple.

[R7ehr]

The only thing that is legal is to draw two vaccines into the same syringe from separate vials.

Maybe this is what JohnH heard being referred to? This would sound like a combination shot to me.

Except that is not a permitted combination. These are clearly listed.

Beats me. Ken said it was legal.

[Ken]

The only thing that is legal is to draw two vaccines into the same syringe from separate vials.

Maybe this is what JohnH heard being referred to? This would sound like a combination shot to me.

No, that is not what JohnH claims that he heard.

What he claims is that the Cleveland Clinic ONLY had a blended vaccine cocktail of GARDASIL (given to girls for HPV) and flu (given to everyone) and that the patient in question was forced to take the blended vaccine because the clinic did not have individual vials of the separate vaccines available. That in primary care clinic they had no separate vaccines for HPV and flu, only a blended cocktail. Which on its face isn't even a plausible combination since they go to two different patient populations at different times.

JohnH was making that claim to support his assertion that vaccines are unsafe because clinics are now blending vaccines together in ways that were never tested and approved by the FDA. This is an assertion that Judas and I are saying is utterly false. There are, indeed blended vaccines that have long been administered and that have been thoroughly tested in their blended forms. And that have been given to hundreds of millions (probably billions) of children over the decades. Like the MMR and DTaP. But there are only two vaccine combinations that are allowed to be administered together at the clinical level (not by blending vials as JohnH suggested is happening, but by drawing two vaccines into a single syringe. And those two approved vaccine combinations are ones that have been approved for use in combination and sold both in combination and apart. So that by drawing two vaccines into a single syringe you are just reassembling a combination vaccine that is already tested, approved, sold and administered in combination form anyway.

Basically JohnH has been an endless fountain of vaccine misinformation and false information here on this forum. The assertion that the COVID vaccine didn't work. The assertion that the COVID vaccine causes cancer. The assertion that they are made with dead baby parts. And I don't remember what all else. And this latest assertion that clinics are mixing up their own unapproved vaccine cocktails is just part of that stream of misinformation. And is a completely implausible assertion for all the reasons that Judas and I have been explaining. Either he completely mis-heard something, or us just making it up. The fact that he had doubled down on the story so much suggests that it is just another made up story in the service of his anti-vax ideology. Because I'm quite certain that the Cleveland Clinic is not mixing up unapproved vaccine cocktails and administering them to patients. Not at the individual clinic level (which is completely implausible). Nor as some sort of larger policy through their in-house pharmacy network. That would be highly illegal. And it would subject them to all manner of possible malpractice claims if any custom blended vaccine ever introduced any contaminates or infections due to loss or sterility. And for what possible purpose? To save on disposable syringes that probably cost them about 5 cents each?

[JohnH]

And it would subject them to all manner of possible malpractice claims if any custom blended vaccine ever introduced any contaminates or infections due to loss or sterility.

Except it wouldn’t. You can’t bring a malpractice suit for a vaccine injury. They go to a special administrative hearing. Vaccines are not subject to the same legal repercussions as prescription drugs.

[Judas Maccabeus]

And it would subject them to all manner of possible malpractice claims if any custom blended vaccine ever introduced any contaminates or infections due to loss or sterility.

Except it wouldn’t. You can’t bring a malpractice suit for a vaccine injury. They go to a special administrative hearing. Vaccines are not subject to the same legal repercussions as prescription drugs.

That law shields the manufacturer, not the practitioners from using vaccines “inconsistent with their labeled use.” For example, if I gave vaccines intertheicaly, good luck on avoiding responsibility. That is a common myth.

Mixing vaccines would clearly be “inconsistent with their labeled use.” In other words, the manufacturer could not be sued, but the individual who committed that malpractice could.

[JohnH]

And it would subject them to all manner of possible malpractice claims if any custom blended vaccine ever introduced any contaminates or infections due to loss or sterility.

Except it wouldn’t. You can’t bring a malpractice suit for a vaccine injury. They go to a special administrative hearing. Vaccines are not subject to the same legal repercussions as prescription drugs.

That law shields the manufacturer, not the practitioners from using vaccines “inconsistent with their labeled use.” For example, if I gave vaccines intertheicaly, good luck on avoiding responsibility. That is a common myth.

Mixing vaccines would clearly be “inconsistent with their labeled use.” In other words, the manufacturer could not be sued, but the individual who committed that malpractice could.

As I’ve said earlier, I highly doubt anything was done wrong but think it quite likely some of you here simply aren’t up to date on vaccine regulations and what’s allowed.

[Ken]

As I’ve said earlier, I highly doubt anything was done wrong but think it quite likely some of you here simply aren’t up to date on vaccine regulations and what’s allowed.

Right. This is a public forum searchable by Google. If one wants to be treated as a credible source of information and not a fountain of misinformation it is trivially easy to back up such assertions. Especially when it comes to vaccine approvals. For example, it took me all of a couple minutes to discover that Merck, the maker of the GARDASIL vaccine for HPV manufactures and markets it in two forms. Most commonly a single-dose sterile vaccine vial sold in boxes of 10 which look like this:



And in pre-loaded single dose disposable syringes which look like this:



And in the product storage and handling guidelines from Merck states the following:



And yet you claim the Cleveland Clinic is mixing up blends of GARDASIL with other vaccines against the manufacturers instructions? How are they doing that? Breaking open sealed single-use sterile vials and stirring them together with the flu vaccine? Which comes in sterile sealed 10-dose vials which are also not designed to be opened or mixed?

[Grace]

The only thing that is legal is to draw two vaccines into the same syringe from separate vials.

Maybe this is what JohnH heard being referred to? This would sound like a combination shot to me.

No, that is not what JohnH claims that he heard.

What he claims is that the Cleveland Clinic ONLY had a blended vaccine cocktail of GARDASIL (given to girls for HPV) and flu (given to everyone) and that the patient in question was forced to take the blended vaccine because the clinic did not have individual vials of the separate vaccines available. That in primary care clinic they had no separate vaccines for HPV and flu, only a blended cocktail. Which on its face isn't even a plausible combination since they go to two different patient populations at different times.

JohnH was making that claim to support his assertion that vaccines are unsafe because clinics are now blending vaccines together in ways that were never tested and approved by the FDA. This is an assertion that Judas and I are saying is utterly false. There are, indeed blended vaccines that have long been administered and that have been thoroughly tested in their blended forms. And that have been given to hundreds of millions (probably billions) of children over the decades. Like the MMR and DTaP. But there are only two vaccine combinations that are allowed to be administered together at the clinical level (not by blending vials as JohnH suggested is happening, but by drawing two vaccines into a single syringe. And those two approved vaccine combinations are ones that have been approved for use in combination and sold both in combination and apart. So that by drawing two vaccines into a single syringe you are just reassembling a combination vaccine that is already tested, approved, sold and administered in combination form anyway.

Basically JohnH has been an endless fountain of vaccine misinformation and false information here on this forum. The assertion that the COVID vaccine didn't work. The assertion that the COVID vaccine causes cancer. The assertion that they are made with dead baby parts. And I don't remember what all else. And this latest assertion that clinics are mixing up their own unapproved vaccine cocktails is just part of that stream of misinformation. And is a completely implausible assertion for all the reasons that Judas and I have been explaining. Either he completely mis-heard something, or us just making it up. The fact that he had doubled down on the story so much suggests that it is just another made up story in the service of his anti-vax ideology. Because I'm quite certain that the Cleveland Clinic is not mixing up unapproved vaccine cocktails and administering them to patients. Not at the individual clinic level (which is completely implausible). Nor as some sort of larger policy through their in-house pharmacy network. That would be highly illegal. And it would subject them to all manner of possible malpractice claims if any custom blended vaccine ever introduced any contaminates or infections due to loss or sterility. And for what possible purpose? To save on disposable syringes that probably cost them about 5 cents each?

LOL...quite a few guidelines violations in that post.

[Ken]

Maybe this is what JohnH heard being referred to? This would sound like a combination shot to me.

No, that is not what JohnH claims that he heard.

What he claims is that the Cleveland Clinic ONLY had a blended vaccine cocktail of GARDASIL (given to girls for HPV) and flu (given to everyone) and that the patient in question was forced to take the blended vaccine because the clinic did not have individual vials of the separate vaccines available. That in primary care clinic they had no separate vaccines for HPV and flu, only a blended cocktail. Which on its face isn't even a plausible combination since they go to two different patient populations at different times.

JohnH was making that claim to support his assertion that vaccines are unsafe because clinics are now blending vaccines together in ways that were never tested and approved by the FDA. This is an assertion that Judas and I are saying is utterly false. There are, indeed blended vaccines that have long been administered and that have been thoroughly tested in their blended forms. And that have been given to hundreds of millions (probably billions) of children over the decades. Like the MMR and DTaP. But there are only two vaccine combinations that are allowed to be administered together at the clinical level (not by blending vials as JohnH suggested is happening, but by drawing two vaccines into a single syringe. And those two approved vaccine combinations are ones that have been approved for use in combination and sold both in combination and apart. So that by drawing two vaccines into a single syringe you are just reassembling a combination vaccine that is already tested, approved, sold and administered in combination form anyway.

Basically JohnH has been an endless fountain of vaccine misinformation and false information here on this forum. The assertion that the COVID vaccine didn't work. The assertion that the COVID vaccine causes cancer. The assertion that they are made with dead baby parts. And I don't remember what all else. And this latest assertion that clinics are mixing up their own unapproved vaccine cocktails is just part of that stream of misinformation. And is a completely implausible assertion for all the reasons that Judas and I have been explaining. Either he completely mis-heard something, or us just making it up. The fact that he had doubled down on the story so much suggests that it is just another made up story in the service of his anti-vax ideology. Because I'm quite certain that the Cleveland Clinic is not mixing up unapproved vaccine cocktails and administering them to patients. Not at the individual clinic level (which is completely implausible). Nor as some sort of larger policy through their in-house pharmacy network. That would be highly illegal. And it would subject them to all manner of possible malpractice claims if any custom blended vaccine ever introduced any contaminates or infections due to loss or sterility. And for what possible purpose? To save on disposable syringes that probably cost them about 5 cents each?

LOL...quite a few guidelines violations in that post.

JohnH is here on a public forum accusing the Cleveland Clinic of administering its own un-tested and unapproved vaccine cocktails in violation of both the law and the guidelines by the vaccine manufacturers themselves. And he is doing so in support of his larger argument that vaccines are unsafe and ineffective.

That is a very serious public accusation for which he has provided zero evidence whatsoever.