Mennonite Measles in Texas

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Soloist
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by Soloist »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:48 pm
Retirement has been interesting, "no-notice" inspections are something I do not miss.
Honestly, working home health I’ve avoided the majority of inspections… but when I worked at a facility (5 patient facility) we knew the inspectors were coming at least a month ahead of time.
Sadly, we still got dings on things :roll:
Home health you really can’t inspect the homes very well… and the protocol is basically check charts (15% monthly but I’m skeptical even that many) and then they’re special homes get an actual inspection. I seem to always work in the special homes but I haven’t seen it yet.
Supervisor pops in every so often but they mostly just chat and update records.
And it’s amazing how many times the doctor and the pharmacist won’t fix messed up prescriptions… legally speaking, I can’t give medication unless it gives a correct route… g-tubes… yeah… nobody here cares.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by ken_sylvania »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:23 pm
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:11 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:02 pm

The question here isn't whether patients can overhear conversations between medical staff in a medical clinic.

The question is whether staff at a Cleveland Clinic facility are breaking open sealed vaccine vials and mixing up their own custom "mystery cocktails" of blended vaccines in direct violation of FDA regulations. And then what? Repackaging them in empty unlabeled vials under sterile lab conditions? For the the purpose of what? Saving on a 5 cent disposable syringe?

That doesn't sound remotely plausible. And it wouldn't even match up with any patient medical records system or vaccination record which would report those two vaccines separately by lot number, NDC code, and dosage, and time, location, and site (which arm) of administration, not in combination.
How many of those "outlandish" claims did John actually make?
Did he say that the staff at Cleveland Clinic was mixing the combo vaccine? No.
Did he say that it was blended from previously sealed vaccine vials? No.
Did he say that the blended vaccine was done in violation of FDA regulations? No.
Did he say that they were being repackaged in unlabeled vials? No.

If you wanna set up a strawman so that you can bravely demolish it, maybe you want to be a bit more discreet about it so that it doesn't look like you're just fighting a strawman.
By its very existence, such a combination vial would be a violation of regulations that are too numerous to count. You simply cannot have that combination unless it was created contrary to numerous regulations too numerous to count. Such a vial could not be created unless numerous entities up the chain violated all sorts of regulations. While a drug fridge in a hall might escape regulatory notice in some small rural clinics, we are talking about a major teaching hospital here, quite similar to the one I used to work in. There are both internal QC people and external inspectors checking for compliance. It is a black letter day if you are found in violation of these regulations, starting with paperwork, climbing to fines, and beyond.

It would be far simpler for our friend to admit he must have misheard, but we have seen accusations against the healthcare system nonstop. It is one of the most regulated spaces in America! People don't mix drugs together without specific protocols authorizing that mixture. Manufacturers don't just "put stuff like adjuvants into vaccines without the FDA determining they are safe. There are strict limits on what you can and cannot do on an open bench versus under a LAF hood, not to mention training and documentation requirements. If you do draw up a mixture, you cannot leave it in a fridge, such draws are for "Immediate use" only, unless it was drawn under a LAF hood.

John's stuff does not pass the smell test. It would be simpler to say, "maybe I misheard" than to keep doubling down.
I agree.
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JohnH
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by JohnH »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:23 pm By its very existence, such a combination vial would be a violation of regulations that are too numerous to count. You simply cannot have that combination unless it was created contrary to numerous regulations too numerous to count. Such a vial could not be created unless numerous entities up the chain violated all sorts of regulations. While a drug fridge in a hall might escape regulatory notice in some small rural clinics, we are talking about a major teaching hospital here, quite similar to the one I used to work in. There are both internal QC people and external inspectors checking for compliance. It is a black letter day if you are found in violation of these regulations, starting with paperwork, climbing to fines, and beyond.
If you wish to send me a PM, I will be glad to discuss details further. It is certainly a mainstream Cleveland Clinic primary care facility, home to some excellent doctors - not to mention one of my favorite LPNs and some great nurses too.

Nonetheless, the vaccine fridge is in the hallway. This isn’t the first one I’ve seen off a hallway - one at an independent doctor’s office associated with Summa Health System is another, and yet another is a primary care and walk on clinic on the Mercy Bon Secours system. Perhaps the fridges have some kind of advanced security system like a lock and key. I don’t go around opening and inspecting random fridges.
It would be far simpler for our friend to admit he must have misheard, but we have seen accusations against the healthcare system nonstop. It is one of the most regulated spaces in America! People don't mix drugs together without specific protocols authorizing that mixture. Manufacturers don't just "put stuff like adjuvants into vaccines without the FDA determining they are safe. There are strict limits on what you can and cannot do on an open bench versus under a LAF hood, not to mention training and documentation requirements. If you do draw up a mixture, you cannot leave it in a fridge, such draws are for "Immediate use" only, unless it was drawn under a LAF hood.
I have no idea of the source of the materials in the fridge. What I did witness were little glass vials with preprinted professional looking labels. That’s all I could see or remember.
John's stuff does not pass the smell test. It would be simpler to say, "maybe I misheard" than to keep doubling down.
I’m aware you think I didn’t see it. I did see it. So did my wife, if you think I need a “character witness”. We both thought it unusual to offer hpv plus flu.

This is speculation on my part but the Clinic runs their own compounding pharmacy and often runs their own protocols for things ranging from masking to how often staff need to wash their hands. They have enough history they basically ARE the medical authority - they are not just some random hospital that has to submit to the authority, they have their own internal research and oversight.

So who knows - perhaps they made their own combination. I am quite confident the Clinic is not flagrantly violating all kinds of laws and regulations. I am however completely confident they have a fridge with vaccines in it right by where myself and my children get weighed in. I am somewhat confident I overheard them discussing whethe, due to lack of inventory of single vaccines, they could use a combination they did have in stock.

Denying our lived experiences is a common tactic of people who want to push pro vaccine propaganda. “John didn’t see that.” “You must be mistaken.” “That would never happen.” I’m not even bothered it happened. I’m simply stating that it did.

Incidentally, as parents who are choosing to delay vaccination of our children and also avoid stem cell based formulations, they are an excellent facility which treats such parents with respect, providing information about vaccine schedules and safety via their online patient portal, alternative schedules for parents who prefer fewer vaccinations than the full CDC schedules, and no pressure or shaming for choosing to delay or avoid.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:36 pm
This is speculation on my part but the Clinic runs their own compounding pharmacy and often runs their own protocols for things ranging from masking to how often staff need to wash their hands. They have enough history they basically ARE the medical authority - they are not just some random hospital that has to submit to the authority, they have their own internal research and oversight.

So who knows - perhaps they made their own combination. I am quite confident the Clinic is not flagrantly violating all kinds of laws and regulations. I am however completely confident they have a fridge with vaccines in it right by where myself and my children get weighed in. I am somewhat confident I overheard them discussing whethe, due to lack of inventory of single vaccines, they could use a combination they did have in stock.
Compounding does not extend to vaccines, that is manufacture. Their internal protocols do not override or exempt from FDA regulation. They have to submit to authority just like every other teaching hospital. You simply misheard, misunderstood or the people speaking misspoke.

They have to submit to regulations just like everyone else. They may have combination vaccines in stock, but it is not HPB/Influenz. You cannot compound vaccines.
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JohnH
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by JohnH »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:02 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:36 pm
This is speculation on my part but the Clinic runs their own compounding pharmacy and often runs their own protocols for things ranging from masking to how often staff need to wash their hands. They have enough history they basically ARE the medical authority - they are not just some random hospital that has to submit to the authority, they have their own internal research and oversight.

So who knows - perhaps they made their own combination. I am quite confident the Clinic is not flagrantly violating all kinds of laws and regulations. I am however completely confident they have a fridge with vaccines in it right by where myself and my children get weighed in. I am somewhat confident I overheard them discussing whethe, due to lack of inventory of single vaccines, they could use a combination they did have in stock.
Compounding does not extend to vaccines, that is manufacture. Their internal protocols do not override or exempt from FDA regulation. They have to submit to authority just like every other teaching hospital. You simply misheard, misunderstood or the people speaking misspoke.

They have to submit to regulations just like everyone else. They may have combination vaccines in stock, but it is not HPB/Influenz. You cannot compound vaccines.
How are you so confident such a combination doesn’t exist?
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Mayberry
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by Mayberry »

Wow! So many experts!! Let's argue. Let's fight.

Instead, let's make MennoNet great again !
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JohnH
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by JohnH »

Mayberry wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:40 pm Wow! So many experts!! Let's argue. Let's fight.

Instead, let's make MennoNet great again !
We need a charismatic leader who promises to do so.
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justme
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by justme »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:42 pm
Mayberry wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:40 pm Wow! So many experts!! Let's argue. Let's fight.

Instead, let's make MennoNet great again !
We need a charismatic leader who promises to do so.
More like people who actually care about other people enough to actually follow requests in threads, and not ride roughshod over everyone else just because they know everything.
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Anything seems possible if you don't know what you are talking about. fb meme
You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to ignore that nonsense. another fb meme
JohnH
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by JohnH »

justme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:56 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:42 pm
Mayberry wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:40 pm Wow! So many experts!! Let's argue. Let's fight.

Instead, let's make MennoNet great again !
We need a charismatic leader who promises to do so.
More like people who actually care about other people enough to actually follow requests in threads, and not ride roughshod over everyone else just because they know everything.
If you don’t want certain people to participate, simply name them at the start of the thread and ask them not to.
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R7ehr
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Re: Mennonite Measles in Texas

Post by R7ehr »

Ken wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:29 pm The only thing that is legal is to draw two vaccines into the same syringe from separate vials.
Maybe this is what JohnH heard being referred to? This would sound like a combination shot to me.
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