Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

What is the difference between political oppression of free speech and corporate suppression (what he have in the west now) thereof? At least political oppression is not behind the guise of a "free society".

You haven't spent any time behind the iron curtain. I have. I'd like to take you to Sachsenhausen, the concentration camp outside of Berlin, and show you that they continued to use these camps, but for political prisoners. I used to watch East German propaganda on TV. There's a difference, trust me.

Would you like to have been a serf in Tsarist Russia, the period that Putin now idolizes in his speeches? Would you like to be a person living in a neighboring country?

Regarding the tired old "everybody I don't like is Hitler" arguments. Has Putin started an ethnic cleansing campaign that I'm not aware of? While we're on the topic, which did God care less for the Weimar Republic or the Third Reich? Which was more righteous?

You mean the tired old "every dictator who poisons or imprisons his political foes, insists that even basic truths like the fact they are at war with another country may not be said out loud without threat of jail or worse, jails protestors, and starts the biggest military invasion since World War II is actually the kind of tyrant we should be worried about"? This is not like calling Justin Trudeau or George Bush Hitler.

How much blood do you need to see before you start getting uncomfortable?

And take a good look at Putin in Chechnya. And some of the mysteries surrounding the secret police and those bombings. Declaring that Ukraine has no right to be a country and that their language is not a language and that they should belong to Russia ... sounds a lot like saying this people has no right to exist.

If you care so much about hiterl-esque ethnic genocide, you should be more enraged by China and atrocities committed against the Uighurs. You can actually take some action in that case too. You could easily call for personal boycotts against any companies doing business in China, or buying goods from China, but that would be a little too uncomfortable personally. It's a lot easier to be an armchair white knight virtue signaling about how Putin is the next Hitler, than to actually do something.

China is another example of a dangerous dictatorship. And of course, they have announced an alliance.

You won't see me defending either China or Russia in these actions. And you won't see me attacking either Ukraine or the Uighurs or Taiwan.

And if you want to fight liberalism, remember that Hitler and Mussolini probably did more to promote liberalism in Europe than anyone else. Because of the stink of what they had done. And the church suffered a serious loss of credibility because of the degree to which it had cooperated.

D-

[Ken]

Of note is China refusing to accept Western sanctions against Russia. America is actually talking about sanctions against China too.

This is the end of the West, folks. America looks like a very dangerous teasing partner who basically demands complete political control of your country whilst expecting other countries to ignore when America does the exact same stuff. No independent “sovereign” nation in their right mind wants to be a Western client state anymore.

America has no ability to project force into Ukraine. Just lots of big talk and flying people like the VP to Poland. Zero action, other than shipping arms which end up getting blown up in a missile strike.

America is facing lacking air superiority as well against Russian hypersonic missiles. America has been paying defence contractors billions to develop the same thing - so far with no results. Mach 10 missiles are a game changer. America has zero air defence against that.

In light of this, perhaps America should be less aggressive about demanding every country around the globe allow gay marriage.

Seriously Josh?

Not everything in the world is about gay rights. In fact very little in the word and especially international affairs is about gay rights. Most certainly not US-Chinese relations.

You do realize that most of the rest of the world has left you behind on this subject? Even the Chinese are about as supportive of LGBT rights and gay marriage as Americans, and support it by very wide margins. The latest international polling on the subject found that 13% of Americans object to gay marriage or civil unions while in China the percentage is a very similar 19%. It is only Russia that is outlier on this subject. I guess that is why you such a Russia apologist here?

Here is the most recent international polling which shows that the Chinese are much closer to the west than they are to Russia on this subect: https://www.ipsos.com/en/lgbt-pride-202 ... attraction

[temporal1]

Of note is China refusing to accept Western sanctions against Russia. America is actually talking about sanctions against China too.

This is the end of the West, folks. America looks like a very dangerous teasing partner who basically demands complete political control of your country whilst expecting other countries to ignore when America does the exact same stuff. No independent “sovereign” nation in their right mind wants to be a Western client state anymore.

America has no ability to project force into Ukraine. Just lots of big talk and flying people like the VP to Poland. Zero action, other than shipping arms which end up getting blown up in a missile strike.

America is facing lacking air superiority as well against Russian hypersonic missiles. America has been paying defence contractors billions to develop the same thing - so far with no results. Mach 10 missiles are a game changer. America has zero air defence against that.

In light of this, perhaps America should be less aggressive about demanding every country around the globe allow gay marriage.

Really stupid people with trillions to burn.

[temporal1]

That's a very milquetoast take on things.
If you don't see the cracks forming in the global western liberal paradigm, you won't be able to understand what Russia is doing.

Before anyone gets the pitchforks. I'm not trying to make a case Russia is doing a good thing, and The Ukraine deserves it.

I'm making a case for Christians remaining neutral on the morality of this invasion.

Slowly puts down pitchforks....

it’s probably only fair to let nett know boot was on his h.s. debate team.

[nett]

Of note is China refusing to accept Western sanctions against Russia. America is actually talking about sanctions against China too.

This is the end of the West, folks. America looks like a very dangerous teasing partner who basically demands complete political control of your country whilst expecting other countries to ignore when America does the exact same stuff. No independent “sovereign” nation in their right mind wants to be a Western client state anymore.

America has no ability to project force into Ukraine. Just lots of big talk and flying people like the VP to Poland. Zero action, other than shipping arms which end up getting blown up in a missile strike.

America is facing lacking air superiority as well against Russian hypersonic missiles. America has been paying defence contractors billions to develop the same thing - so far with no results. Mach 10 missiles are a game changer. America has zero air defence against that.

In light of this, perhaps America should be less aggressive about demanding every country around the globe allow gay marriage.

Seriously Josh?

Not everything in the world is about gay rights. In fact very little in the word and especially international affairs is about gay rights. Most certainly not US-Chinese relations.

You do realize that most of the rest of the world has left you behind on this subject? Even the Chinese are about as supportive of LGBT rights and gay marriage as Americans, and support it by very wide margins. The latest international polling on the subject found that 13% of Americans object to gay marriage or civil unions while in China the percentage is a very similar 19%. It is only Russia that is outlier on this subject. I guess that is why you such a Russia apologist here?

Here is the most recent international polling which shows that the Chinese are much closer to the west than they are to Russia on this subect: https://www.ipsos.com/en/lgbt-pride-202 ... attraction

Ken, Do you believe homosexuality is an abomination before God, or do you think it's pretty much ok with Him?

[Josh]

Boot,

Which Asian countries allow gay marriage?

Free hint: only the U.S. client states.

[ohio jones]

Slowly puts down pitchforks....

Don't just put them down. Beat your pitchforks into tuning forks.

[Szdfan]

It’s interesting how a military invasion and actual war in another country somehow becomes about US culture wars. Kulturkampf über alles.

[Ken]

Of note is China refusing to accept Western sanctions against Russia. America is actually talking about sanctions against China too.

This is the end of the West, folks. America looks like a very dangerous teasing partner who basically demands complete political control of your country whilst expecting other countries to ignore when America does the exact same stuff. No independent “sovereign” nation in their right mind wants to be a Western client state anymore.

America has no ability to project force into Ukraine. Just lots of big talk and flying people like the VP to Poland. Zero action, other than shipping arms which end up getting blown up in a missile strike.

America is facing lacking air superiority as well against Russian hypersonic missiles. America has been paying defence contractors billions to develop the same thing - so far with no results. Mach 10 missiles are a game changer. America has zero air defence against that.

In light of this, perhaps America should be less aggressive about demanding every country around the globe allow gay marriage.

Seriously Josh?

Not everything in the world is about gay rights. In fact very little in the word and especially international affairs is about gay rights. Most certainly not US-Chinese relations.

You do realize that most of the rest of the world has left you behind on this subject? Even the Chinese are about as supportive of LGBT rights and gay marriage as Americans, and support it by very wide margins. The latest international polling on the subject found that 13% of Americans object to gay marriage or civil unions while in China the percentage is a very similar 19%. It is only Russia that is outlier on this subject. I guess that is why you such a Russia apologist here?

Here is the most recent international polling which shows that the Chinese are much closer to the west than they are to Russia on this subect: https://www.ipsos.com/en/lgbt-pride-202 ... attraction

Ken, Do you believe homosexuality is an abomination before God, or do you think it's pretty much ok with Him?

What I am surprised by is how much you and Josh are invested in denying civil rights to a portion of the population, both in the US and abroad. It seems to be your overriding domestic and foreign policy issue. Far exceeding pretty much every other Biblical commandment, most of which are far more explicit. I don't see you advocating for putting Matthew 19:24 into legislation, for example.

I'm not gay but I'm also not interested in legislating how anyone else lives their life and I expect the same courtesy in return. From gay people, from conservative Christians, from conservative Muslims, or anyone else.

Show me any New Testament text which suggests that Jesus advocated that ANY of his teachings should be legislated into secular law. Or that it should be the mission of Christians to do so. Did Jesus or Paul go to Rome to lobby the Roman Senate to legislate Christian teachings into Roman law?

This is a thread about the invasion of one sovereign nation by another. Why you guys think everything in the world is about gay marriage is beyond me.

[temporal1]

.. Which Asian countries allow gay marriage?
Free hint: only the U.S. client states.

Speaking of U.S. client states (with mixed history) .. this odd report about Ukraine:

2016 SOTU / before DJT was on the radar: Radio Free Europe

“Many Puzzled By Obama's Reference To Ukraine As Russian 'Client State' “
Obama Says Failing States Are America's Biggest Threat
WATCH: U.S. President Barack Obama says that failing states are America's biggest threat abroad, not any competing superpower.
In his final State of the Union address, he then makes the reference to Syria and Ukraine. (Reuters)
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-obama-s ... 86026.html

.. The annual address to a joint session of the U.S. Congress is one of the U.S. president's
most comprehensively prepared and vetted speeches. Obama's chief speechwriter, Jon Favreau, told National Public Radio earlier in the day his office had been working on the speech since "around Thanksgiving."

"Once the new year came and went, there would be a frenzied couple of weeks writing and editing and rewriting, right up until the final speech and then practicing the speech on the last day," Favreau said. ..

.. Zalishchuk noted that Obama mentioned Ukraine twice in the speech, saying in the second reference that U.S. support for Ukraine and other countries transitioning to democracy helped make the world more stable.

Ostap Semerak, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary Committee for European Integration, also emphasized Obama's statement of support for Ukraine and his criticism of Moscow.

"Obama says [the United States] is helping Ukraine defend democracy," Semerak said. "And that this strengthens the international order that was established after World War II. When Obama mentions this order, he talks about Russia and its aggressive policies.
Ukraine is viewed as trying to maintain the system of peace that was formed after World War II and as opposed to Russia's bid to establish a new world order based on aggression." ..

hmm.
2022: it now seems U.S. aggression in Ukraine led to Russian aggression in Ukraine, but U.S. aggression was Russia’s fault, anyway,
so Russia’s aggression is a pure mystery, coming out of nowhere, because, the formula is: U.S./Left-West = good, Russia = bad,
at all times, bar none.

Regarding a twitter response to the speech:

On the brighter side, Tomkiw noted, Obama did not upset Ukrainians by referring to their country as "the Ukraine" -- an old-fashioned formulation seen by some as offensive, as it suggests Ukraine is a region rather than a country.
“At least Obama didn't say The Ukraine. Wow I'm really scraping for any silver lining #SOTU”