Anabaptist Perspectives and liberalism

[Jaran]

(Is all of your membership composed of people from backgrounds that always eagerly embraced the radio, e.g. Lancaster Conference? I was under the impression some people are from backgrounds like e.g. Beachy that would not have done so.)

I know one founding member was no-radio Beachy. Others were from CMC, Lancaster Conference, Virginia Conference (I think, but should double check).

In any case, my point is that the problem isn't that people are listening to Rush Limbaugh, which is not really much of a problem anymore, but the problem is drinking from worldly streams, which would indeed include the radio but now includes a panoply of other media. Once you embrace things like social media, political polarisation is inevitable. You might as well tell people who go to the beach to be careful not to get wet. The entire point of social media is to create engagement by courting controversies, which is not exactly something the Christian should want to pursue.

Understood.

I'm glad to hear you at least think you're moving that way...

Gotta be honest with you, this feels like a cynical conversation.

...leaving your video camera, your monetised social media accounts...

The accounts aren't monetized. We're supported by donors.

Not sure how conversation etiquette works on this forum, but I've gotta leave for the day and get some other work done.

Thanks for talking with me.

[ohio jones]

We've moved toward more traditional Mennonite institutions, practices, and friendships, and further away from fundamentalism.

I'm glad to hear you at least think you're moving that way, which at least means you would consider moving in that direction to be a good thing. I hope you can eventually find yourselves on a path towards such things in all areas of Christian life.

Why Do I Talk to Myself? Benefits, Science, and When to Seek Help

[barnhart]

I feel like I'm on trial and am defending my church. Not sure why this is necessary, but I thought it might be worth engaging, if there was indeed an honest misunderstanding.

Don't feel obligated to respond. Do so only if it's appropriate in your best judgement. Some of us are listening and just thinking.

[Soloist]

Not sure how conversation etiquette works on this forum, but I've gotta leave for the day and get some other work done.

Heretic!

You work for a living?

All joking of course, forums are as fast paced as your next response, 5 minutes or 5 days or longer for some.

[GaryK]

I feel like I'm on trial and am defending my church. Not sure why this is necessary, but I thought it might be worth engaging, if there was indeed an honest misunderstanding.

Welcome to MN where nearly all moderate-conservatives are an utterly lost cause.

My opinion is that the church, including moderate-conservative Mennonite churches, belong to Jesus. I don't have reason to believe that Jesus has given up on his church, so I don't plan to abandon hope of redemption and growth where there's brokenness. Not sure I can concede that it's as broken and beyond hope as JohnH seems to think it is.

One of the things I really appreciate about Anabaptist Perspectives is the focus on helping the conservative Anabaptist church world understand our history and the present dangers we are facing with the hope that it will produce more churches focused on truly following Jesus.

[ken_sylvania]

The church belongs to Jesus, but some worldly institutions and systems, such as The Episcopal Church, the Unitarian-Universalists, and the much of the transitional conservative Anabaptist church systems, are indeed broken beyond hope except for hope in Jesus who can rescue people despite them being caught in such systems.

Overall, transitional Anabaptism isn't leading people into more Christian lives, saving the lost, spreading the gospel to our neighbours, or raising up the next generation of faithful disciples. It functions a lot more like an ethnic social club. I have nothing against ethnic social clubs, but I don't confuse them with Christ's church, even though one often finds faithful Christians at my local gardening club, the Ruritan association, and so forth.

That sounds suspiciously like the folks who say the Old Orders aren't saved.

[cooper]

I wonder about higher education and how that might fit into this conversation. The hosts and guests of AP are much more likely to have college degrees as compared to the average plain Anabaptist. My perception is higher education shapes the content of AP: what topics are chosen, how the conversations happen, etc. There's deep suspicion among plain Anabaptists about higher education, so it doesn't surprise me that some plain Anabaptists would be suspicious of AP.

I'm a former conservative Mennonite with a college degree. Make of that what you will.

[nett]

The church belongs to Jesus, but some worldly institutions and systems, such as The Episcopal Church, the Unitarian-Universalists, and the much of the transitional conservative Anabaptist church systems, are indeed broken beyond hope except for hope in Jesus who can rescue people despite them being caught in such systems.

Overall, transitional Anabaptism isn't leading people into more Christian lives, saving the lost, spreading the gospel to our neighbours, or raising up the next generation of faithful disciples. It functions a lot more like an ethnic social club. I have nothing against ethnic social clubs, but I don't confuse them with Christ's church, even though one often finds faithful Christians at my local gardening club, the Ruritan association, and so forth.

That sounds suspiciously like the folks who say the Old Orders aren't saved.

I underlined the part that the Old Orders seem to be doing a better job with.

[Soloist]

The church belongs to Jesus, but some worldly institutions and systems, such as The Episcopal Church, the Unitarian-Universalists, and the much of the transitional conservative Anabaptist church systems, are indeed broken beyond hope except for hope in Jesus who can rescue people despite them being caught in such systems.

Overall, transitional Anabaptism isn't leading people into more Christian lives, saving the lost, spreading the gospel to our neighbours, or raising up the next generation of faithful disciples. It functions a lot more like an ethnic social club. I have nothing against ethnic social clubs, but I don't confuse them with Christ's church, even though one often finds faithful Christians at my local gardening club, the Ruritan association, and so forth.

That sounds suspiciously like the folks who say the Old Orders aren't saved.

I underlined the part that the Old Orders seem to be doing a better job with.

Wife: OK, so not all old orders can be grouped in the same grouping, and I’m not actually making a blanket condemnation against them, but some are very ethnically closed. Also, keeping the next generation is important but not an automatic sign of a strong Christian church. The Mormons and the Muslims are pretty good at that too.

As I said, there are some very sincere and God-fearing old order groups out there, and some that are much better at welcoming in outsiders than others, but just as we don’t want to say none of the OO are saved, we should probably extend the same grace to some of the churches that you are labeling as transitional.

I don’t know. I don’t agree with everything Anabaptist perspective shares, but I do think they’re sincere and I do appreciate some of their talks on history and on Christianity and politics because I at least hear it as a call to being non-political, and the vast majority of plain people I’ve seen that get drawn into politics in our circles are being drawn towards the Christian right. Doesn’t mean the left is a better ditch to get into, but the right seems to be the most popular among CA’s.

[JohnH]

Lots of people in transitional churches are saved and many even live Christian lives. But is in spite of the institution, not because of it.