Measels outbreak in Lancaster County

[joshuabgood]

I would not be willing to engage in participating in abortion just so that I could be less likely to spread an infectious disease, though.

I wouldn't either. Full stop.

[Soloist]

Okay, so consider that some of us consider abortion a great evil, much like Anabaptists and Quakers and others considered slavery a big problem back in the 1700s and 1800s. Many of them would take great pains to avoid buying things produced by slave labour. Some of us today want to avoid things tainted by abortion.

Who were the Anabaptists that took the aforementioned position?

Wife: I do recall hearing about possibly an Amish group that helped a runaway slave once? From a search, Mennonites and Quakers in Germantown vocally opposed slavery. Most anabaptist groups just abstained from it versus protested it, but Germantown actually built their own textile economy, and a lot of the groups would’ve naturally avoided a lot of it because of being more self-sufficient and making a lot of their own stuff.

I don’t know that there were any churches that made all out standards about it, but it would be interesting to find out, and I’m sure individuals made their own choices on it at least

[Sliceitup]

There reports out that claim ages of 80’s. Those reports are false. County Commissioners and RFK or putting out bad misinformation.

I haven't seen those reports. My question is how Judas Maccabeus knows they are children. I haven't seen any reports that they were children. Is this information public anywhere? Or maybe he has inside information.

It’s interesting how they said to protect privacy they can’t release any information.

… except the information that the deceased were unvaccinated.

I’m curious if you’ve done any self reflection since the beginning of this thread?

Immediately when I heard the news I messaged a contact within the Amish community and asked if it was Amish people. I was told that there had been unverified reports of several babies dying.

My next trip was the Lancaster newspaper’s obituary section. Within minutes I found three infant or young child deaths with very obvious Amish names. I also saw that there were only a few other Amish people who had died in that time period. And they were old. Old enough that they would have had measles before the vaccine existed. So very unlikely they died from measles. On top of that, there were zero other Lancaster county infant/child deaths listed for the time period that would have made sense for the governor’s announcement.

So if the governor had said it was children that died everyone could have done the exact same thing I did. There were only those three children. (there have been more since, also Amish, so this might not be over yet.)

If the victims had been under the age of 60 there were maybe 5 deaths (other than the infants) in that category within that time frame. So age would have been identifying information.

And you were out here like a rabid chicken yelping about the need to know more information. There literally was no other information that wouldn’t have identified the victims. Saying they were unvaccinated but not old enough to be vaccinated would have been enough to indentify them.

So, do you think maybe there should be some humility?

(And don’t come after me for assuming the victims were Amish. The Botschaft has made no secret of the way it is tearing through Amish communities.)

[JohnH]

I’m curious if you’ve done any self reflection since the beginning of this thread?

Yes, I've done plenty.

My next trip was the Lancaster newspaper’s obituary section. Within minutes I found three infant or young child deaths with very obvious Amish names. I also saw that there were only a few other Amish people who had died in that time period. And they were old. Old enough that they would have had measles before the vaccine existed. So very unlikely they died from measles. On top of that, there were zero other Lancaster county infant/child deaths listed for the time period that would have made sense for the governor’s announcement.

So if the governor had said it was children that died everyone could have done the exact same thing I did. There were only those three children. (there have been more since, also Amish, so this might not be over yet.)

Yet the babies involved did not die from being unvaccinated for measles, now, did they?

A baby who was just born isn't vaccinated, rather obviously.

Measles has not been reported as the cause of death, either.

And you were out here like a rabid chicken yelping about the need to know more information. There literally was no other information that wouldn’t have identified the victims. Saying they were unvaccinated but not old enough to be vaccinated would have been enough to indentify them.

Reporting that a newborn baby (who died whilst being born) is "unvaccinated" has absolutely no purpose other than to try to generate fear.

So, do you think maybe there should be some humility?

Humility for what? This was a con job from the start. The deaths are not from being "unvaccinated".

In any case, by far the biggest threat to babies in Lancaster is abortion - over 500 a year. But we don't see much reporting on that, now, do we?

[justme]

Reporting that a newborn baby (who died whilst being born) is "unvaccinated" has absolutely no purpose other than to try to generate fear.

as does the wording, dead baby parts, aborted baby parts, etc. baby parts in food, aborted baby parts injected into veins. etc.

[justme]

would the baby have died had the mother not had measles at the time of the birth of the baby?

[Sliceitup]

I’m curious if you’ve done any self reflection since the beginning of this thread?

Yes, I've done plenty.

My next trip was the Lancaster newspaper’s obituary section. Within minutes I found three infant or young child deaths with very obvious Amish names. I also saw that there were only a few other Amish people who had died in that time period. And they were old. Old enough that they would have had measles before the vaccine existed. So very unlikely they died from measles. On top of that, there were zero other Lancaster county infant/child deaths listed for the time period that would have made sense for the governor’s announcement.

So if the governor had said it was children that died everyone could have done the exact same thing I did. There were only those three children. (there have been more since, also Amish, so this might not be over yet.)

Yet the babies involved did not die from being unvaccinated for measles, now, did they?

A baby who was just born isn't vaccinated, rather obviously.

Measles has not been reported as the cause of death, either.

And you were out here like a rabid chicken yelping about the need to know more information. There literally was no other information that wouldn’t have identified the victims. Saying they were unvaccinated but not old enough to be vaccinated would have been enough to indentify them.

Reporting that a newborn baby (who died whilst being born) is "unvaccinated" has absolutely no purpose other than to try to generate fear.

So, do you think maybe there should be some humility?

Humility for what? This was a con job from the start. The deaths are not from being "unvaccinated".

In any case, by far the biggest threat to babies in Lancaster is abortion - over 500 a year. But we don't see much reporting on that, now, do we?

Measles has been confirmed to be the cause of death in the 6 week old infant. Confirmed by the coroner who did not think the other one was measles, so someone who isn’t just trying the follow the liberal agenda.

As for the other baby, the mother went into labor early, after being very ill with measles. So did the baby die from measles or birth complications due to an early delivery because of measles? I don’t think either one of us has the expertise to determine that. But I would think it’s fairly reasonable to assume the series of events that took place were directly because an unvaccinated pregnant woman had measles. You can holler all you want about the pointlessness of mentioning that infants were unvaccinated, but I’m not sure anyone is going to dispute that this series of events was put into motion because the mother was not vaccinated.

How can this possibly be a con job? Those deaths were reported to state officials and by all public accounts the people who likely made those reports are not anyone we think would be compliant with a liberal governor and his agenda. The child who died at birth was delivered by a midwife and/or birth center. The other death was the 6 week old who was under the care of the Clinic for Special Children. It’s really hard for me to see how a reasonable person could think these reports were made as part of a con job. And if you think the con job is just that the governor reported actual facts that were reported to the state then that doesn’t feel very reasonable either.

[Soloist]

would the baby have died had the mother not had measles at the time of the birth of the baby?

That centers around the cause of the spleen rupturing and we don't know the why. If it was from measles then the answer is self evident.

The other baby.... they were going to die sooner than later already so people will discard it.

Ultimately people are going to dismiss these two cases as rare and they basically are but babies are at high risk already. We don't get the news reports on how many children got disabled from having measles.

[ken_sylvania]

would the baby have died had the mother not had measles at the time of the birth of the baby?

I don't think anybody knows for sure, but it certainly seems like it wasn't good for mother or baby for her to be so sick. The likelihood of complications is greater when the mother is not in good health.

I wish people would be willing to discuss these things calmly and in good faith, instead of the nastiness, name calling, posturing, half-truths, and rumors. I think we would be much better off if we would say only about 1/10 as much as what we do, and be careful to differentiate between what we know to be fact, what is mere speculation, and what is probably true but not known for certain.

[ken_sylvania]

And you were out here like a rabid chicken yelping about the need to know more information. There literally was no other information that wouldn’t have identified the victims. Saying they were unvaccinated but not old enough to be vaccinated would have been enough to indentify them.

So, do you think maybe there should be some humility?

I'm sure it felt good to call JohnH a rabid chicken, but it didn't strengthen your argument in the least and it works against your credibility as a person. It certainly doesn't seem to express humility.

Same with JohnH calling the reporting of the deaths a "con job."

I think that the Governor's choice to publicize the vaccination status of the two who died while refusing to elaborate further was designed around an agenda, but hardly a "con job."

The Governor didn't have to say whether the two who died were vaccinated. But it is possible that the furor over his remarks make have drawn more attention to the epidemic and, perhaps, actually been effective in that regard.