Measels outbreak in Lancaster County

[Soloist]

Let’s be honest here, you and I are not putting out any fire, this is just another argument over vaccines.

People are dead, and likely it is unnecessary. The epidemic is still spreading. Measles is perhaps the most contagious disease we know of.

If that is not a fire, I don’t know what is.

And your solution? How would you address the religiously opposed? The anti all vaccines?

Can you actually change anything except by prayer? Does your argument actually fix the problem?

[Chris IN]

"Experience is the school of man, and he will learn at no other."
-Edmund Burke

We, as a society, have some hard re-learning in our future about vaccines and the pain of childhood death.

Perhaps we should first learn lessons about not murdering perfectly healthy babies first.

No one is murdering babies to create the MMR vaccine. Stop telling falsehoods.

So, one baby took one for the team? We are good with that?

[AnthonyMartin]

We are not discussing research here. We are discussing an epidemic that is in progress, and two families are mourning dead children. We are putting out a fire.

Do you have good information that the people who died are in fact children? Reports I read state that the ages, identities, and specific circumstances have not been publicly released.

There reports out that claim ages of 80’s. Those reports are false. County Commissioners and RFK or putting out bad misinformation.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Perhaps we should first learn lessons about not murdering perfectly healthy babies first.

No one is murdering babies to create the MMR vaccine. Stop telling falsehoods.

So, one baby took one for the team? We are good with that?

No baby "took one for the team." An abortion was done in I believe Sweeden for " social reasons." A set of tissue samples was found to be able to replicate in the lab. Hence, the cell line in question was developed.

Had the researcher not been sent the tissue samples, they would have wound up in the incinerator. So the abortion in question had nothing to do with the cell line that was developed and occurred even before the idea of a cell line vaccine was conceived.

You cannot "unring" this bell. No amount of rejection of vaccines will bring this child back to life. This child's death had absolutely nothing to do with vaccine production; nobody knew that a human cell line could be used to make a vaccine.

So, the question is "What do we do now? Let children get measles knowing that some of them will die? Letting them die will not stop a single abortion.

If some of you all preached Christ with the same zeal you oppose vaccines, maybe something good will come out of it. I simply want already-born children to have a chance at life with no crippleing effects of a disease that is a known killer.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Let’s be honest here, you and I are not putting out any fire, this is just another argument over vaccines.

People are dead, and likely it is unnecessary. The epidemic is still spreading. Measles is perhaps the most contagious disease we know of.

If that is not a fire, I don’t know what is.

And your solution? How would you address the religiously opposed? The anti all vaccines?

Can you actually change anything except by prayer? Does your argument actually fix the problem?

Use the current vaccine. Lobby and perhaps put your money where your mouth is and fund an "ethical" vaccine.

[ken_sylvania]

2 deaths have been reported in Lancaster County, PA from a widening Measels outbreak. I have no confirmation as to which community is involved. But for some of you, please stop disseminating misleading information. Your misinformation can actually result in dead children. so, please, just stop.

I'm not opposed to vaccination, but I would certainly like to know what a "measles-associated death" is. Does it mean that the cause of death was a complication from measles, or does it simply mean the person had measles when they died?

In contract language, "associated with" doesn't require causation, "caused by" requires some degree of causation although not direct causation, while "directly caused by" requires pretty much an immediate cause and effect.

Using weasel words doesn't do much for improving public confidence that the government is giving us accurate facts.

[Judas Maccabeus]

2 deaths have been reported in Lancaster County, PA from a widening Measels outbreak. I have no confirmation as to which community is involved. But for some of you, please stop disseminating misleading information. Your misinformation can actually result in dead children. so, please, just stop.

I'm not opposed to vaccination, but I would certainly like to know what a "measles-associated death" is. Does it mean that the cause of death was a complication from measles, or does it simply mean the person had measles when they died?

In contract language, "associated with" doesn't require causation, "caused by" requires some degree of causation although not direct causation, while "directly caused by" requires pretty much an immediate cause and effect.

Using weasel words doesn't do much for improving public confidence that the government is giving us accurate facts.

In general, that means they died from one of the common complications brought on by the measles infection. Normally, that is pneumonia or encephalopathy or swelling of the brain. These are well known complications.

Generally, measles is rare enough before this epidemic that it would be unusual for a person inpatient with another disease to pick it up. It is the law in Maryland that all personal working with children that were born after 1957 must be vaccinated. It is a requirement for employment.

[ken_sylvania]

2 deaths have been reported in Lancaster County, PA from a widening Measels outbreak. I have no confirmation as to which community is involved. But for some of you, please stop disseminating misleading information. Your misinformation can actually result in dead children. so, please, just stop.

I'm not opposed to vaccination, but I would certainly like to know what a "measles-associated death" is. Does it mean that the cause of death was a complication from measles, or does it simply mean the person had measles when they died?

In contract language, "associated with" doesn't require causation, "caused by" requires some degree of causation although not direct causation, while "directly caused by" requires pretty much an immediate cause and effect.

Using weasel words doesn't do much for improving public confidence that the government is giving us accurate facts.

In general, that means they died from one of the common complications brought on by the measles infection. Normally, that is pneumonia or encephalopathy or swelling of the brain. These are well known complications.

Generally, measles is rare enough before this epidemic that it would be unusual for a person inpatient with another disease to pick it up. It is the law in Maryland that all personal working with children that were born after 1957 must be vaccinated. It is a requirement for employment.

Thanks. I wish they could tell us. At the same time I can understand that no matter how much info they release it will still be picked apart and questioned.
It's kind of a shame that the powers that be have bankrupted the governorship of the trust it ought to be able to have from the people, and now in time of emergency, when it really actually matters, we find it extremely difficult to believe them.

[Soloist]

People are dead, and likely it is unnecessary. The epidemic is still spreading. Measles is perhaps the most contagious disease we know of.

If that is not a fire, I don’t know what is.

And your solution? How would you address the religiously opposed? The anti all vaccines?

Can you actually change anything except by prayer? Does your argument actually fix the problem?

Use the current vaccine. Lobby and perhaps put your money where your mouth is and fund an "ethical" vaccine.

I don’t have the money to influence anyone nor would I. I also don’t believe in reinventing the wheel.
America had an ethical vaccine and chose to remove that option when many more people objected to fetal cell use.

How about you put your money where your mouth is and fund trips to Japan for the ethical version? Then you can see a few more people vaccinated.
I’d do it myself if I could afford it.

[Ernie]

The thing is, he was vaccinated as a child, and got measles anyway.

It’s not a perfect vaccine and immunity imparted by it can wane after years.

Really the problem facing Americans and the world is we basically have human reservoirs now and unless addressed through quarantine or vaccinations… the diseases will come back and be common childhood illnesses again.

I accept this as inevitable without legal changes as even if they provided an ethical vaccine, the majority of anti vaccine activists would still refuse.

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that in a hypothetical society, all vaccines are ethically sourced and everybody is fully vaccinated.

Would the diseases come back again? Or do they only come back because some people are not vaccinated or fully vaccinated?