Trudy Metzger/Steve Stutzman

[Grace]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

As for the appropriateness of the fund raiser, I am not the judge, not a jury, nor I am I God. Beings I am none of them, it is not in my place to pretend I am and attempt to litigate the matter on social media.

I will question the reasoning behind making the fund raiser public and not go to some of Leroy Miller's supporters and ask for funds to help him and his wife.

Beings you are not the judge, nor a jury, nor God, do you feel it is in your place to attempt to litigate the matter of criticism of the fundraiser?

??

[Soloist]

I was getting him confused with the guy who married someone too young to an older person.

1Ti 3:7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

This should disqualify this man from ever having been ordained to begin with.

[anndet92]

Yes sir.

He stalked Amish girls and exposed himself to them over twenty years ago. Girls in the area were afraid to take walks because there was more than one incident.

maybe I’m getting him confused with the pastor guy or maybe they’re the same person…
Gotta say, I agree with you…
I hold a fairly high view of ordination to be above reproach and this crosses the line.
Personally, even if it was 20 year olds, it would still cross the line.

To be clear, he got convicted of luring 16 and 17 year olds to his car and exposing himself to them whilst doing unspeakable things. Several Amish girls complained to the authorities and the police eventually caught him. He was tried and convicted (I am unclear on if a plea were involved; that’s not always public info). Indiana law imposed a harsher sentence for 15 and under for this kind of indecent act versus 16 and up, and used the term “minor”.

He was installed to a church leadership position a year later.

Fast forward 20 years to the present… Min. Miller in turn used that wrangling to act like he did nothing with “minors”, and accepted a senior pastor position, and this happened to be one where Stutzman is an elder as well.

I do not understand why such a person can’t just stick to a career like logging or concrete work. If he wants to serve church, there are opportunities to do things like shovel the sidewalks, spread gravel on the parking lot, or even work brother to brother with another man who is falling into this kind of sin and be open and share how he overcame it. Yet instead he ended up in senior leadership.

My gravest concern is not his crimes themselves but the seeming lack of remorse and downplaying it. Why not just say accurately what happened, say you are a sinner saved by grace and then how you live your life now not to fall back into sin? I have trouble with alcohol, so I don’t run a bar, a distillery, or keep beer in my fridge.

This.

It is insane to me how many people think that having a sex offender in leadership positions is safe because he’s “repented”. But those same people wouldn’t be okay with a former drunk owning a bar or bartending. They also wouldn’t be okay with a former bank robber being a CEO of a bank or working at a bank.

Why would anyone fundraise for this kind of a person?

Again, no regard for the victims! They don’t get 30 grand to live off of for 6 months.

[R7ehr]

I was getting him confused with the guy who married someone too young to an older person.

1Ti 3:7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

This should disqualify this man from ever having been ordained to begin with.

Amen

[Neto]

....
When doing counselling with a young lady or a couple, in Anabaptist circles (or at least all the ones I've been part of), it is expected the minister's wife attends, and if things of a particularly sensitive nature are discussed sometimes the young lady would visit just with the minister's wife. I would be very concerned about anyone deviating from this.

(I don't know anything about the particulars of any of the specific cases, or about the practices of any specific counselors, so that is why I am quoting only the above part. Refer to the previous post for JohnH's full statement.)

I do certainly agree with this - I do not think that it is fitting for a man to counsel a woman or girl about ANYTHING without his wife present, and also echo the part about that counsel of an 'intimate nature' should be done by the pastor's wife, or another woman, preferably with a second woman also present. This is in keeping with Paul's instructions regarding the ministry of the 'older women'.

[temporal1]

It is insane

full stop.

[Neto]

....
.... Why not just say accurately what happened, say you are a sinner saved by grace and then how you live your life now not to fall back into sin? I have trouble with alcohol, so I don’t run a bar, a distillery, or keep beer in my fridge.

We had a missionary co-worker who had been an alcoholic - per his own self-description. He let everyone know, so that anyone who drank a bit here and there would know that they should not 'tempt him' by inviting him along if they planned to do any 'social drinking'. There was also a guy who attended Bible college with me, who had only been saved 6 months before he came to the school. He had started using drugs in Vietnam, while fighting there. I wasn't with him when this happened, but he and another friend were hitchhiking, and were picked up by some hippies. They were smoking pot, and offered him the joint. He took one draw on it and he was 'gone'. People say that isn't normal, that it takes a lot of it before any effect would become apparent, but that's the way it happened.

I say this to point out that (at least in my opinion and from my observations in other types of situations) a person who was a former victim of a certain sin should not be involved in working closely (i.e. solely) with others who are still caught up in the same sin. It simply looks dangerous to me. At the same time, I do believe that Christ has the power to completely heal and free someone from a former vice - sinful behavior. (Here, I'm referring to sins where the perpetrator is also the victim, like drug abuse. Think intransitive verb, where the person undergoing the action of the verb is also the 'actor'.

(Actually, where there is a victim and a perpetrator involved, I question the wisdom of the former victim being heavily involved in working with other victims of the same type of perp. Perhaps in conjunction with another counselor, but it just seems to me that it forces the already healed victim to relive their experiences all over again, reopening old wounds.)

[Grace]

Why would anyone fundraise for this kind of a person?

I tend to question that as well. However, no one is forced to donate, and each person decides whether to donate or not. And because of that fact, I fail to understand why the fundraiser is anyone else's business. Unless it is to stir up hatred and vitriol.

[JohnH]

Why would anyone fundraise for this kind of a person?

I tend to question that as well. However, no one is forced to donate, and each person decides whether to donate or not. And because of that fact, I fail to understand why the fundraiser is anyone else's business. Unless it is to stir up hatred and vitriol.

Grace, what is going on with a public fundraiser in the conservative Anabaptist world is certainly the business of other conservative Anabaptists. In this particular case, we see someone getting a 6 month paid vacation after being caught being less-than-truthful about their past history of sex offences.

The purpose isn't to stir up hatred and vitriol, but rather to ask if this is a good Christian witness, and if perhaps there are much better ways someone can be restored and reconciled. Overall, I can think of much better uses for $9,000 or $30,000 than giving all expenses paid vacations to pastors who get caught being dishonest about sexually based offences. I would go so far as to say that this kind of thing is actually making it harder for the perpetrator to confess and be fully reconciled.

Instead, a member of the community could find a job for him to stay busy at for 6 months. That would seem to be a lot better to me.

Here is a public post from Trudy on the matter. I have a hard time finding things here to disagree with.

Countless people are sending me the a link to a $30K fundraiser started for Leroy Miller, the pastor who deceived the public about his past sexual crimes against minors. He terrorized a community to the point that women and girls stopped going for walks. After 21 years, several of us exposed the crimes and the lies. Now a fundraiser is happening for Leroy and his wife.

They have made the point for me that I’ve been making all along. Predators have a place in church. Victims do not.

When a victim’s family struggles to get food and shelter, where is church? Some of us help financially behind the scenes. Victims’ families rarely feel comfortable asking for help. They push back against someone offering to do a fundraiser because it adds further shame. They are the rejects in ‘christian’ community.

But, when someone who committed crimes, gets called out, suddenly the ‘christian’ community is filled with compassion?

I come back to… What had ‘church’ become? Because it is not the way of Christ. It is not the heart of God.

Who will raise $30k for counseling for Leroy’s victims? Or to feed and provide healthcare for the multiple victims of Michael Beiler?

Ponder that, church.

By the way, the organiser of this fundraiser (Tanisha Gingerich) is Steve Stutzman's daughter.

[ohio jones]

I fail to understand why the fundraiser is anyone else's business. Unless it is to stir up hatred and vitriol.

Is that why you posted about it?