Trudy Metzger/Steve Stutzman

[anndet92]

Leroy has said he did not have any “victims”. He claimed recently that there were no minors involved, yet court documents show some of the girls were 17. Anyone under 18 is considered a minor by Indiana law.

Indeed, there is a very obscure feature of Indiana law where it classifies people as "minors" to determine the severity of a crime, and for this particular crime, it made a distinction between under 16 and over 16. Leroy Miller was apparently an expert in such laws, and used that to make a technically-true-but-quite-misleading statement that "I wasn't convicted for a crime involving a minor". Any reasonable person would think "Oh, ok, nobody was under 18", not "Oh, okay, he means his victims could have been 16 or 17".

It has been reported that Leroy has counseled young women and has held them on his lap during counseling sessions. This is after he supposedly “repented”.

This seems to be a thing Steve Stutzman promotes, which I find quite odd. (Even odder was him promoting a married woman to sit on a marriage counsellor's lap, and/or her husband's, during a counselling session. This is not normal practice, and these rumours keep abounding.)

When doing counselling with a young lady or a couple, in Anabaptist circles (or at least all the ones I've been part of), it is expected the minister's wife attends, and if things of a particularly sensitive nature are discussed sometimes the young lady would visit just with the minister's wife. I would be very concerned about anyone deviating from this.

I can't express how stupid and wrong it is for male counselors to have physical contact of any sort beyond simple handshakes with females they are counseling, and how unwise it is for them to engage in one-on-one sessions without a third person present. That said, I have no way of knowing whether the above accusations are true, or whether they are just salacious rumors.

I personally have no problem with one-on-one therapy with a person of the opposite sex as long as the therapist is licensed. Being licensed means that there is a code of ethics and your license can be revoked if allegations arise that are substantiated.

I have a huge problem with unlicensed therapy/counselors because they are accountable to no one. And in scenarios like this, it feels as if bad actors are using this to gain access to more victims.

I can’t say much on the investigative side of things, but I do know that investigations are ongoing, and they take far more time than I wish. We are talking years….

[JohnH]

I personally have no problem with one-on-one therapy with a person of the opposite sex as long as the therapist is licensed. Being licensed means that there is a code of ethics and your license can be revoked if allegations arise that are substantiated.

I would disagree that being licensed and having a code of ethics means that would actually be followed. I would advise anyone to avoid these kind of situations. They simply aren't necessary.

I have a huge problem with unlicensed therapy/counselors because they are accountable to no one. And in scenarios like this, it feels as if bad actors are using this to gain access to more victims.

I will simply say that I am aware of some very dubious counselling situations in the plain Anabaptist world that involve people who are licenced (and I am talking about more than just 1 counsellor, and in one case an entire facility). Someone losing their licensure is actually a pretty complex process and isn't going to happen from just a single accusation. From what I can see, it doesn't really provide much protection at all.

Outside of plain circles, I can tell stories of extremely unethical behaviour on the part of licenced counsellors/therapists.

[Soloist]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

Is Leroy accused of being such?

Yes sir.

He stalked Amish girls and exposed himself to them over twenty years ago. Girls in the area were afraid to take walks because there was more than one incident.

maybe I’m getting him confused with the pastor guy or maybe they’re the same person…
Gotta say, I agree with you…
I hold a fairly high view of ordination to be above reproach and this crosses the line.
Personally, even if it was 20 year olds, it would still cross the line.

[anndet92]

Is Leroy accused of being such?

Yes sir.

He stalked Amish girls and exposed himself to them over twenty years ago. Girls in the area were afraid to take walks because there was more than one incident.

maybe I’m getting him confused with the pastor guy or maybe they’re the same person…
Gotta say, I agree with you…
I hold a fairly high view of ordination to be above reproach and this crosses the line.
Personally, even if it was 20 year olds, it would still cross the line.

I think we’re talking about the same person. Leroy was a pastor at Bethesda until recently when he “resigned”.

[Grace]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

As for the appropriateness of the fund raiser, I am not the judge, not a jury, nor I am I God. Beings I am none of them, it is not in my place to pretend I am and attempt to litigate the matter on social media.

I will question the reasoning behind making the fund raiser public and not go to some of Leroy Miller's supporters and ask for funds to help him and his wife.

[JohnH]

Is Leroy accused of being such?

Yes sir.

He stalked Amish girls and exposed himself to them over twenty years ago. Girls in the area were afraid to take walks because there was more than one incident.

maybe I’m getting him confused with the pastor guy or maybe they’re the same person…
Gotta say, I agree with you…
I hold a fairly high view of ordination to be above reproach and this crosses the line.
Personally, even if it was 20 year olds, it would still cross the line.

To be clear, he got convicted of luring 16 and 17 year olds to his car and exposing himself to them whilst doing unspeakable things. Several Amish girls complained to the authorities and the police eventually caught him. He was tried and convicted (I am unclear on if a plea were involved; that’s not always public info). Indiana law imposed a harsher sentence for 15 and under for this kind of indecent act versus 16 and up, and used the term “minor”.

He was installed to a church leadership position a year later.

Fast forward 20 years to the present… Min. Miller in turn used that wrangling to act like he did nothing with “minors”, and accepted a senior pastor position, and this happened to be one where Stutzman is an elder as well.

I do not understand why such a person can’t just stick to a career like logging or concrete work. If he wants to serve church, there are opportunities to do things like shovel the sidewalks, spread gravel on the parking lot, or even work brother to brother with another man who is falling into this kind of sin and be open and share how he overcame it. Yet instead he ended up in senior leadership.

My gravest concern is not his crimes themselves but the seeming lack of remorse and downplaying it. Why not just say accurately what happened, say you are a sinner saved by grace and then how you live your life now not to fall back into sin? I have trouble with alcohol, so I don’t run a bar, a distillery, or keep beer in my fridge.

[JohnH]

Here is the public fundraiser. Was the senior pastor position a paid position?

https://www.givesendgo.com/sabbatical-support

Sabbatical Support
To Those who care-
Some of us as friends and family around Leroys would really like to see them take a period of time to rest and recuperate from some 18 years in ministry without a Sabbatical. We are putting together a Give-Send-Go, to provide a platform for giving to help them take some time off. Many of you have expressed that Leroy has been a blessing to you personally, in his ministry, and that you see specific anointing on his life. This is your opportunity to be a part of that calling, by helping them find a time of healing and rest. With your help, we are hoping to extend this period to 6 months of R and R, with lots of love and prayers for restoration of health.
Generous individuals and groups have committed to covering the cost of their HealthShare during this time. Some others are offering expense paid weeks of vacation spots. We are putting this out for those who are able and willing to help cover the more mundane everyday expenses in life. If you want to share, but need a tax-deductible receipt, email me at Stanishas@aol.com and I will give you church information you can donate thru.

Having grown up in a ministry family, I am perhaps uniquely situated to see and recognize the specific stressors and markers of exhaustion. I have seen these markers in both Leroy and Naomi being accelerated through the tensions of the past year. I did try my best to come alongside, encourage and help. . . but inside I knew they needed Sabbatical time. Untroubled. Without pressure. Cared for. Altho I despise the way this all came about, I am excited for the restoration they will experience, and what God will do next in them.
Thank You in advance for your kindness, help and thoughts during this time.
Let us know if you have questions!
Benji and Tanisha Gingerich

Raised $9,600 of a $30,000 goal so far. I am a tad concerned about the idea of funnelling money via another church too.

My wife and I feel a bit exhausted ourselves and I do minister to a lot of people. If anyone wants to donate a vacation to us, we’d be very grateful. We’d be happy with just 6 days instead of 6 months and could make do with a few thousand instead of $30k.

[Grace]

I do not understand why such a person can’t just stick to a career like logging or concrete work. If he wants to serve church, there are opportunities to do things like shovel the sidewalks, spread gravel on the parking lot, or even work brother to brother with another man who is falling into this kind of sin and be open and share how he overcame it. Yet instead he ended up in senior leadership.

That I can agree with. Well said.

[JohnH]

I do not understand why such a person can’t just stick to a career like logging or concrete work. If he wants to serve church, there are opportunities to do things like shovel the sidewalks, spread gravel on the parking lot, or even work brother to brother with another man who is falling into this kind of sin and be open and share how he overcame it. Yet instead he ended up in senior leadership.

That I can agree with. Well said.

To be clear, I think the rest of the congregants are as much responsible as he is. He clearly has a spiritual need. They should be ministering to him, not installing him in a position of authority.

[ken_sylvania]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

As for the appropriateness of the fund raiser, I am not the judge, not a jury, nor I am I God. Beings I am none of them, it is not in my place to pretend I am and attempt to litigate the matter on social media.

I will question the reasoning behind making the fund raiser public and not go to some of Leroy Miller's supporters and ask for funds to help him and his wife.

Beings you are not the judge, nor a jury, nor God, do you feel it is in your place to attempt to litigate the matter of criticism of the fundraiser?