Demands to Denounce

[Bootstrap]

It starts with not demonising your opponents.

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Likewise, someone shouldn’t have to denounce a figure in order to “prove” they don’t enthusiastically support that person. These Maoist struggle sessions need to stop.

This is a claim you make with some frequency. Can you please point to some specific posts that do this?

My impression is that nobody does this, but the accusation keeps circulating. I could be wrong. You seem to believe that this happens often. You could be wrong. Either way, in the name of truth and brotherhood, I think it would be right to either:

1. Provide clear examples of posts that demand that someone denounce a political figure. With links to the original posts, so we can clearly know that this happens, or else
2. Stop making this claim as though it were true.

If people are actually doing this, they should stop. If they are not, it would be good to stop promoting false narratives that divide and polarize. Either way, this is important to track down.

[ken_sylvania]

It starts with not demonising your opponents.

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Likewise, someone shouldn’t have to denounce a figure in order to “prove” they don’t enthusiastically support that person. These Maoist struggle sessions need to stop.

This is a claim you make with some frequency. Can you please point to some specific posts that do this?

My impression is that nobody does this, but the accusation keeps circulating. I could be wrong. You seem to believe that this happens often. You could be wrong. Either way, in the name of truth and brotherhood, I think it would be right to either:

1. Provide clear examples of posts that demand that someone denounce a political figure. With links to the original posts, so we can clearly know that this happens, or else
2. Stop making this claim as though it were true.

If people are actually doing this, they should stop. If they are not, it would be good to stop promoting false narratives that divide and polarize. Either way, this is important to track down.

If it's so terribly important to track down, my recommendation is that you subscribe to full access to Mennonet and go peruse the politics section for a while. You should be able to easily find examples of what he's referring to. And until you do that, I think you ought to apologize for being so quick to smear JohnH as if he is a liar. You don't bother to footnote and source nearly all your claims, so you have no right to demand that JohnH do so for his claims. And to imply that he's lying if he doesn't source his claims to your satisfaction is simply not right.


Maybe he's trying to think about what is good and right and what is wrong in a biblical sense, not to point fingers and say who the good people and bad people are.

You can be specific about who you have a problem with instead of “people” on “MennoNet”. I think it’s weasely to say that.

I don't. To me, the goal of discussing these things is to think about what is good and right and what is wrong in a biblical sense, not to point fingers and say who the good people and bad people are.

Tribalism and party spirit are counterproductive. I really don't want to characterize people, I want to think about what the Bible teaches us.

When people think I must be sneakily implying nasty things about people I won't identify, I wonder why they think that. Is that expected, normal behavior?

[ohio jones]

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Oh, you mean like this?

As I asked earlier, did you speak out against the Obama administration doing this?

[Valerie]

It starts with not demonising your opponents.

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Likewise, someone shouldn’t have to denounce a figure in order to “prove” they don’t enthusiastically support that person. These Maoist struggle sessions need to stop.

This is a claim you make with some frequency. Can you please point to some specific posts that do this?

My impression is that nobody does this, but the accusation keeps circulating. I could be wrong. You seem to believe that this happens often. You could be wrong. Either way, in the name of truth and brotherhood, I think it would be right to either:

1. Provide clear examples of posts that demand that someone denounce a political figure. With links to the original posts, so we can clearly know that this happens, or else
2. Stop making this claim as though it were true.

If people are actually doing this, they should stop. If they are not, it would be good to stop promoting false narratives that divide and polarize. Either way, this is important to track down.

I have picked up on some underlying tones by some who feels to me line almost shaming Trump support equating positive recognition of some things Trump with being MAGA-
I and probably neither does JohnH keep some kind of journal of these type of posts to quickly reply to your request it’s more of an acknowledgment based on many posts. You wouldn’t pick up on it unless you were on the receiving end but I know what he means.

[Valerie]

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Oh, you mean like this?

As I asked earlier, did you speak out against the Obama administration doing this?

Not the same thing - not applicable to what he meant.

[justme]

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Oh, you mean like this?

As I asked earlier, did you speak out against the Obama administration doing this?

Not the same thing - not applicable to what he meant.

I disagree, Valerie.

[Soloist]

Generally it seems people want to make accusations and live on the edge so they can deny that they were targeting anyone.
We use terms like we or they or us while never meaning me, myself or I but rather that specific person or those few.
Critically it’s important to never name or give examples which allows us to maintain plausible deniability and make it impossible to refute our targeted point which never actually was about specific people but general.

This is a bad habit with some people and really they need to work on it.
I, myself and me are not included.

[Valerie]

Oh, you mean like this?

Not the same thing - not applicable to what he meant.

I disagree, Valerie.

Not surprised

[Anthony]

I thought “call to denounce a certain political figure before their humanity is acknowledged” and calling how bootstrap/szdfan/jazman/whoever reply a “maoist struggle” session” was overly dramatic and made me laugh.

Mudslinging is normal in politics. I dont think you can interact in politics without some level of hostility and violence towards others.

Also I think “calls to denounce a figure before im allowed to have an opinion” has happened 0 times. I also find it strange how sensitive the forum conservatives are (JohnH, Valerie) to pushback from the liberals on politics.

Personally when I go into the politics section im going with the intention of arguing, what other purpose do internet political forums serve? Theres a reason its a walled off part of MN.

[Grace]

To me some of the posts come across as if you don't denounce a politician, it is projected that you support them. Which, many times isn't the case. There have been times that I mentioned some of the things about Trump I disagree with, yet I have been accused of supporting and defending him because I don't "denounce" him as a person.