An Increasing Number of Children Estranged from Parents

[ken_sylvania]

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

In Anabaptist circles, two church members going “no contact” would pretty much be unacceptable. You are expected to resolve differences and let go of hurts/offences.

I just have to point out the fact that church discipline and excommunication is no contact. Maybe you think of it too dramatically, but whenever ive done this to a person i just dont start conversations with them and keep whatever conversations we need to have as short as possible. This seems like the healthiest way ive found to treat a problematic person.

Church discipline and excommunication is not a unilateral decision by one young person setting himself against his elders. You say "whenever i've done this to a person" like it's something you maybe do on a regular basis. I can't see how that is at all healthy.

[ken_sylvania]

It seems pretty safe, you just stop talking to each other. No contact is probably close to a violation of commandment 5, but I think about fleeing from sin, and some of these home lives are plagued with sin and malice.

A violation of the 5th commandment seems like a disaster to me.

[JohnH]

I guess some churches do teach excommunication as "no contact" but I feel that is very, very wrong.

[Anthony]

In Anabaptist circles, two church members going “no contact” would pretty much be unacceptable. You are expected to resolve differences and let go of hurts/offences.

I just have to point out the fact that church discipline and excommunication is no contact. Maybe you think of it too dramatically, but whenever ive done this to a person i just dont start conversations with them and keep whatever conversations we need to have as short as possible. This seems like the healthiest way ive found to treat a problematic person.

Church discipline and excommunication is not a unilateral decision by one young person setting himself against his elders. You say "whenever i've done this to a person" like it's something you maybe do on a regular basis. I can't see how that is at all healthy.

Whats so unhealthy about it? Ive done it a couple of times in my life when dealing with very unworkable, aggressive, or troublesome people. What do you do?

[temporal1]

1) This seems popular with young people, i have certainly done “low contact” with my parents after moving out.

2) They were not abusive but it seemed like a healthy thing to do.

3) As a gen z convert I am slightly horrified by anabaptist families and how close they are.

4) Normally this arrangement seems dysfunction to me and the parents restrict the children / are too involved in their kids lives

When i stumbled upon this forum (MD/MennoDiscuss) i knew the equivalent of nothing about Mennonites, i had a couple of questions. i’d never read or participated in an internet forum before. i didn’t think of ages of members, at all. Eventually i noticed most were in their 20’s, teens, some 30’s, a couple older. It’s was a younger group, but that didn’t seem to matter, at all.

i’d been quite isolated with my terminally ill husband for a number of years. We were very close, his illness made us closer. It drastically changed our dynamics. He had always been so strong and dominate. In many ways we had a role reversal, which brought out new aspects of each of us. He was gracious and respectful. He made it as easy as he could for me. We learned all new things about ourselves and each other. God provides. More isolating changes happened.

After he passed, i hate to think how long i just kinda sat in a state of shock from the changes. i didn’t know what to do with myself.

Then i stumbled onto MD.
Life! Active, living,vibrant people! Lots of young ones. They didn’t seem to “bat an eye” that i wasn’t one of them.

At that time, computers were mostly desktop, and usually centrally located family computers. SHARED. Watched.
So, families were present, if not participating, reading and, i’m sure, sharing opinions.

Evidently, unlike you, i enjoyed this, it reminded me of “normal” family life i grew up with, i think most experienced, that is, families+extended families interacting in daily life. Not just Mennonites, not just Christians; i grew up with lots of cultures nearby and at school, some were prominent atheists - all had similar traditional families and close extended families.

In some cultures, grandparents and elders are specially revered. Weird, eh?

i hope, with time and experience, you will change your mind about all this.
It’s important, and there’s a lot to it.

Over my lifetime, i noticed foreign students generally manage to come to the U.S. for higher education, but, somehow, they manage to retain their close family connections AND faith, moreso than U.S. born students, who often go to (esp state) college to be immediately separated from their families and faith. i find this tragic.

i appreciate others’ (CM) response here. i agree with what’s being said. i hope you come to agree as your life unfolds.
it will probably take some time.

i hope this wasn’t too boring for you.

[ken_sylvania]

I just have to point out the fact that church discipline and excommunication is no contact. Maybe you think of it too dramatically, but whenever ive done this to a person i just dont start conversations with them and keep whatever conversations we need to have as short as possible. This seems like the healthiest way ive found to treat a problematic person.

Church discipline and excommunication is not a unilateral decision by one young person setting himself against his elders. You say "whenever i've done this to a person" like it's something you maybe do on a regular basis. I can't see how that is at all healthy.

Whats so unhealthy about it? Ive done it a couple of times in my life when dealing with very unworkable, aggressive, or troublesome people. What do you do?

I try to forgive and go the second (or third) mile, sometimes enlist the assistance of others to try to make peace. Some relationships do sort of naturally fall by the wayside but I can't think of any time where I've just deliberately decided to cut someone out of my life.

[Ernie]

It seems pretty safe, you just stop talking to each other. No contact is probably close to a violation of commandment 5, but I think about fleeing from sin, and some of these home lives are plagued with sin and malice.

A violation of the 5th commandment seems like a disaster to me.

I just have to point out the fact that church discipline and excommunication is no contact. Maybe you think of it too dramatically, but whenever ive done this to a person i just dont start conversations with them and keep whatever conversations we need to have as short as possible. This seems like the healthiest way ive found to treat a problematic person.

Church discipline and excommunication is not a unilateral decision by one young person setting himself against his elders. You say "whenever i've done this to a person" like it's something you maybe do on a regular basis. I can't see how that is at all healthy.

Whats so unhealthy about it? Ive done it a couple of times in my life when dealing with very unworkable, aggressive, or troublesome people. What do you do?

I try to forgive and go the second (or third) mile, sometimes enlist the assistance of others to try to make peace. Some relationships do sort of naturally fall by the wayside but I can't think of any time where I've just deliberately decided to cut someone out of my life.

This is something I've recently become more acquainted with as I've interacted more with people outside of Anabaptist churches. It does seem to be a very common thing to cut off relationships or go no contact.
I think the reason this is not considered acceptable in our churches includes the following:
If we are to dwell with others in peace as much as is possible with us, we understand this to mean that we continue looking for ways to show kindness if the other person allows us to do so.
If we are to return good for evil and heap coals of fire on people's heads, we need to keep pursuing them.
This also carries over into marriage. We don't end our marriages. We look for ways to keep talking. People are encouraged to get counseling if needed. Basically, none of us in the church need to worry that someday we will come home to a note on the table saying that our spouse is ending the relationship, etc.
We don't believe that ending the relationships is a way to resolve interpersonal difficulties.

Now there are times, like Ken says, when the relationship naturally drifts apart, but we don't consider this a good thing.

[joshuabgood]

There are times, in my view, when no contact is necessary. IE when responding to really damages relationships. This might include affairs of some sort, sexual abuse, or other abusive relationships.

[JohnH]

There are times, in my view, when no contact is necessary. IE when responding to really damages relationships. This might include affairs of some sort, sexual abuse, or other abusive relationships.

I wonder what the "no contact" people plan to do in heaven.

[Soloist]

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

If by "no contact" you mean a child deliberately cutting off contact with his/her parents, I would say I have never, ever seen a no contact situation go well. It literally involves defying God's commandments about how children should treat their parents. I expect there are some situations where there are no good options where it might be the best solution but to recommend it as a preferred option just doesn't seem to line up with Scripture.

Every no contact situation ive heard about involves an insane parent and a victimized child, with constant attempts from the child to forgive the parent. When have no contact situations been “disasters” like you’ve seen? It seems pretty safe, you just stop talking to each other. No contact is probably close to a violation of commandment 5, but I think about fleeing from sin, and some of these home lives are plagued with sin and malice.

Wife: i’m a little bit confused about what you said about your parents though. You said you are low contact, but that they were never abusive. What exactly does low contact mean?

as far as it goes, I actually really respect the Mennonite way of family and community, because it seems like the families are pretty close in it and love and care for each other, although I don’t really see a whole lot of control over adult children as much as I might at Charity or something.

I really appreciate the family I grew up in too. I mean on one side of the family, there was alcohol. And yes, you do have to limit contact if somebody is going to drunk call you and I didn’t wanna live over there, but I never cut off contact completely, and at this point amazingly, that person has actually been clean for a couple of years without having to be in jail, and is beginning to get involved in a lot of Bible studies.

My other side of the family, my parent/aunts and uncle are very close to my grandma and sacrificing a lot to take care of her so that she doesn’t have to be at a nursing home. my cousins are also coming over from out of state to help out their mom’s when they can, completely out of their own free will. Maybe it helps that she has always been sweet and not overly controlling, but I do remember she was the spanking Grandma, and I actually appreciate that at this point and she was never ever abusive. I don’t even remember her doing it past when I was relatively little. My other Grandma let us get away with everything. I really loved her a lot too, but she was the type who got multiple vehicles of hers totaled by allowing drunk family members to drive them.