An Increasing Number of Children Estranged from Parents

[JohnH]

I am slightly horrified by anabaptist families and how close they are. Normally this arrangement seems dysfunction to me and the parents restrict the children / are too involved in their kids lives

Why does it horrify you that Anabaptists have close families? I think it's one of the better things there is in life.

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

In Anabaptist circles, two church members going “no contact” would pretty much be unacceptable. You are expected to resolve differences and let go of hurts/offences.

[mike]

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

Could you say more about what exactly you would advocate for? Parents relaxing most or all restrictions on children?

Probably wouldnt change much, it seems to work ( i think ) for most. But I was raised with very little restrictions and im glad for it. Maybe i view this like spanking, it seems like many plain parents spank their kids, the plain kids are also the most well behaved ive ever seen. I would not spank my children and im glad i wasnt spanked.

It sounds as though you like the outcome in many plain families, but perhaps not how it is achieved. I tell my wife many times that people like the pudding, but don't like how it's made.

I think plain people have a huge amount they can learn about raising families these days, but much of that is from their getting further away from good discipline and closer to permissiveness, in my opinion.

[ken_sylvania]

I am slightly horrified by anabaptist families and how close they are. Normally this arrangement seems dysfunction to me and the parents restrict the children / are too involved in their kids lives

Why does it horrify you that Anabaptists have close families? I think it's one of the better things there is in life.

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

If by "no contact" you mean a child deliberately cutting off contact with his/her parents, I would say I have never, ever seen a no contact situation go well. It literally involves defying God's commandments about how children should treat their parents. I expect there are some situations where there are no good options where it might be the best solution but to recommend it as a preferred option just doesn't seem to line up with Scripture.

[JohnL]

I reckon it looks different from different cultures. It looks to be the Spanish speaking families cling close together. Huge family gatherings on most weekends. Their culture promotes it. It can be a good thing for parents who are aging to have extra help.
I know some of my kin are the exact opposite. Not all of them only some of them. That’s a cultural thing too raising children to be as independent as possible.
I’m not sure there’s always a right way or a wrong way. I’m thinking it depends on where you live and if family members need extra help. I seen some Spanish families kind of drift apart the longer they live in America.

[Anthony]

Could you say more about what exactly you would advocate for? Parents relaxing most or all restrictions on children?

Probably wouldnt change much, it seems to work ( i think ) for most. But I was raised with very little restrictions and im glad for it. Maybe i view this like spanking, it seems like many plain parents spank their kids, the plain kids are also the most well behaved ive ever seen. I would not spank my children and im glad i wasnt spanked.

It sounds as though you like the outcome in many plain families, but perhaps not how it is achieved. I tell my wife many times that people like the pudding, but don't like how it's made.

I think plain people have a huge amount they can learn about raising families these days, but much of that is from their getting further away from good discipline and closer to permissiveness, in my opinion.

Yeah this is accurate. I have seen some people at my church try some gentle parenting and the results are mediocre, the kids end up less well behaved and the parents have trouble being taken seriously. Every single kid ive heard or seen get spanked has been ashamed about it, or have some trauma over it.

[Ernie]

Nothing about the Anabaptist culture or church structure would work without this.

True, but im not envious of anabaptist family dynamics

Plain Anabaptism wouldn’t really exist without them. It’s really just a continuation of traditional families which the west has otherwise exterminated outside of maybe a few immigrant communities and a handful of ethnic enclaves.

Yes, I don't know of any civilization that can function well if a strong, solid family component is removed.

I agree that Anabaptist family dynamics can become problematic with some children not being free to pursue God's call on their life. Other home situations are very controlling and leave children badly wounded. But to cut off or nearly cutoff contact with parents who are not abusive is also damaging to a person's emotional and spiritual well-being. I can testify to both.

Also, some family relationships create a family bubble situation or a castle family situation. When this happens, the rest of the world is shut out and the family becomes ingrown. But where there are strong, healthy families, they can invite others in under their family umbrella, and others get to experience the blessings they might never have enjoyed growing up.

[Anthony]

Why does it horrify you that Anabaptists have close families? I think it's one of the better things there is in life.

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

If by "no contact" you mean a child deliberately cutting off contact with his/her parents, I would say I have never, ever seen a no contact situation go well. It literally involves defying God's commandments about how children should treat their parents. I expect there are some situations where there are no good options where it might be the best solution but to recommend it as a preferred option just doesn't seem to line up with Scripture.

Every no contact situation ive heard about involves an insane parent and a victimized child, with constant attempts from the child to forgive the parent. When have no contact situations been “disasters” like you’ve seen? It seems pretty safe, you just stop talking to each other. No contact is probably close to a violation of commandment 5, but I think about fleeing from sin, and some of these home lives are plagued with sin and malice.

[Anthony]

Why does it horrify you that Anabaptists have close families? I think it's one of the better things there is in life.

Bad tendencies go unchecked due to the power differentials within families, esp between parent/child. The most toxic relationships ive ever seen are spousal and familial. This makes sense because they are the closest but cutting people off seems good for everyone involved. I have never really seen a no contact situation go poorly.

In Anabaptist circles, two church members going “no contact” would pretty much be unacceptable. You are expected to resolve differences and let go of hurts/offences.

I just have to point out the fact that church discipline and excommunication is no contact. Maybe you think of it too dramatically, but whenever ive done this to a person i just dont start conversations with them and keep whatever conversations we need to have as short as possible. This seems like the healthiest way ive found to treat a problematic person.

[JohnH]

I just have to point out the fact that church discipline and excommunication is no contact.

Not at all. I probably maintain more contact with excommunicants than I do members in good standing.

[temporal1]

Life has to be lived and experienced.
That includes marriage and children.

How different everything becomes with lived experiences. No substitute.

1 week with a new little 7 pound newborn can effortlessly change views beyond 15+ years of formal study.
Life is beyond human understanding.