Live MennoNet debates?

[Ernie]

I was watching some footage from the protests in Newark.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiI8XaCEs3s
You can begin watching a discourse at 21:25.
This discourse seems quite tame compared to other things going on in Newark right now. I guess if people can't settle matters online, they need to get out of their arm chairs and go discuss in person.

I wonder if we have any right leaning folks and left leaning folks on MN who would be willing to have a public discourse on either side of a physical fence.

[JohnH]

Seems like exactly the sort of thing most Mennonites would think we don't need to get involved in.

[JohnL]

I wonder if we have any right leaning folks and left leaning folks on MN who would be willing to have a public discourse on either side of a physical fence.

I leaned left on my cane after my knee surgery. It's not much to talk about though.

[Neto]

Leftist and 'Rightests'. I had an interesting conversation with a Romanian woman in Europe (the security manager on the river boat we were on from Amsterdam up the Rhine River). She told me that she thinks that some of her 'countrymen' should not be permitted to vote, because they don't keep informed on major political concerns and issues. She went on to say that many were 'Extreme Rightists' who yearned for the past, the Communist era under the Eastern Bloc. They say that back then, everyone had an apartment, and a job. Her reply to their position was that they had a place to live because you had to have a place to live in order to work, which was required by the State. So now they lean Right. I had asked her what their values were, after she told me that these people "who should not be allowed to vote' were Pro-Russia. I mentioned that in the States, those who lean toward socialism and/or communism are considered Leftists. She found this quite interesting, that the same terms mean the opposite in the context of her country. So this was a reinforcement for me, that when discussing many types of things or issues with others, it is important to define terms, and ask what they mean to the other person. I realize that Russia is not really Communist anymore, but there IS, in fact, a lot of 'nostalgia' there for the USSR as well, so it's complicated.

[barnhart]

I wonder if we have any right leaning folks and left leaning folks on MN who would be willing to have a public discourse on either side of a physical fence.

I leaned left on my cane after my knee surgery. It's not much to talk about though.

I wouldn't worry about it. Jesus loves people who lean that way as well.

[barnhart]

Leftist and 'Rightests'. I had an interesting conversation with a Romanian woman in Europe (the security manager on the river boat we were on from Amsterdam up the Rhine River). She told me that she thinks that some of her 'countrymen' should not be permitted to vote, because they don't keep informed on major political concerns and issues. She went on to say that many were 'Extreme Rightists' who yearned for the past, the Communist era under the Eastern Bloc. They say that back then, everyone had an apartment, and a job. Her reply to their position was that they had a place to live because you had to have a place to live in order to work, which was required by the State. So now they lean Right. I had asked her what their values were, after she told me that these people "who should not be allowed to vote' were Pro-Russia. I mentioned that in the States, those who lean toward socialism and/or communism are considered Leftists. She found this quite interesting, that the same terms mean the opposite in the context of her country. So this was a reinforcement for me, that when discussing many types of things or issues with others, it is important to define terms, and ask what they mean to the other person. I realize that Russia is not really Communist anymore, but there IS, in fact, a lot of 'nostalgia' there for the USSR as well, so it's complicated.

In America the alignment of left/right is historically tricky because the "left" of the founding, the rebellionists against the king, were quick to frame their perspective in terms of individual rights that stood against the king. This is largely the position of the "right" up until MAGA, that the freedom of the individual outweighs the collective. There is also a significant history of the American left coming from religious impulse, from the economic and literacy programs of the Puritans to Emancipation, Prohibition and anti trust movements. Maybe with the development of MAGA and the increasing secularization of the "left", the US system is aligning more closely with the old European model of secularists vs. traditionalists.

I would likely enjoy "discussing" (debating) across the fence with Neto.

[Bootstrap]

I wonder if we have any right leaning folks and left leaning folks on MN who would be willing to have a public discourse on either side of a physical fence.

That sounds like accepting the worldly teaching that:

1. Right vs. left is the distinction that really matters, not something we find in the teachings of Jesus
2. Debate is the best way to approach differences in public discourse

That sounds like more of the things I like least on MN. I think we have some really dedicated Christians here who have thought things through in depth and lived them in their lives. I keep thinking there must be a better way.

I would love to explore topics with people here who come from a different perspective in some form that works better. Sometimes I have used shared Google Docs for that. I haven't done that in public, I'm probably more interested in just talking things out and learning in private. If anyone is interested in trying that with me, let me know in a DM.

[JohnH]

It starts with not demonising your opponents.

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Likewise, someone shouldn’t have to denounce a figure in order to “prove” they don’t enthusiastically support that person. These Maoist struggle sessions need to stop.

[Bootstrap]

It starts with not demonising your opponents.

Far too often, including on this forum, there are demands that someone first denounce a certain political figure before their humanity or right to have an opinion is acknowledged at all. That doesn’t lead to helpful debate.

Likewise, someone shouldn’t have to denounce a figure in order to “prove” they don’t enthusiastically support that person. These Maoist struggle sessions need to stop.

That's worth a thread of its own.

https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.ph ... 27#p306427