Christian leaders honor golden statue of Trump

[barnhart]

Orthodox understand the difference between venerate and worship. Protestants do not understand it.

Are the Orthodox on board with the veneration of statues of God's servants such as President Trump?

[Valerie]

Orthodox understand the difference between venerate and worship. Protestants do not understand it.

Are the Orthodox on board with the veneration of statues of God's servants such as President Trump?

I don’t think they would see it as veneration. Certainly not idolatry, perhaps the Scripture of giving “double honor” would be more fitting for this case.

If I’m not mistaken, veneration is for saints that have passed to be our examples.

I mean, I know of no one ascribing deity to Trump. Honor is what they are doing there. Duh.

[Valerie]

It’s to be young again.

If I was younger (or at least had my wife edit this first), the proper word would be “venerate”.

Orthodox understand the difference between venerate and worship. Protestants do not understand it.

I understand it. I still don’t want venerate statues, icons, and pictures.

Understood. It doesn’t upset me as I feel I understand it on a deeper level and can make the distinct. So I don’t judge them, but I don’t have a conviction to practice it.
I think Holdemans are even against photography so I understand your conviction.
The largest ICON I ever saw was not Orthodox but Anabaptist at the Amish Mennonite Cultural Center Beasley which basically is very similar idea, telling the story with art. honoring the people of Anabaptist history

[mike]

Orthodox understand the difference between venerate and worship. Protestants do not understand it.

I understand it. I still don’t want venerate statues, icons, and pictures.

Understood. It doesn’t upset me as I feel I understand it on a deeper level and can make the distinct. So I don’t judge them, but I don’t have a conviction to practice it.
I think Holdemans are even against photography so I understand your conviction.
The largest ICON I ever saw was not Orthodox but Anabaptist at the Amish Mennonite Cultural Center Beasley which basically is very similar idea, telling the story with art. honoring the people of Anabaptist history

But Mennonites and Amish do not venerate the mural at Behalt.

[temporal1]

.. The same advice applies today, just to different partisan alignments.

i pretty much agree. Some see a savior, others see The End.
Difference being, large scale political organization, msm partisanship, Dept of Education .. versus grumbling individuals, mostly disorganized. disorganized is important. not as pretty, not as efficient, but important.

i’m still amazed Trump has the following he does, considering the massive differences in resources dedicated.
Evidently, through DOGE and post-DOGE, it’s been revealed, a lot of those resources were-are due to serious money laundering of taxpayer dollars.

i guess there must be a lot of people like me, i don’t see a savior, i don’t see The End, i don’t “like” him, i don’t hate him.
i guess it doesn’t occur to me to “like” any given POTUS, nor do i waste any time thinking about their stated religion.
That’s between them and God. i’m not expecting a pastor, priest or rabbi in the White House. i’m not expecting purity or a Puritan.

t1, not to be rude but I seem to recall you were one of the people I used to argue with that Obama was not actually the end of the world, going to outlaw Christianity, never leave office, etc. etc.

While i’m not confident of my memory, this seems doubtful, 1) i was never an end of the worlder, even when young, because scriptures are clear “no one knows the hour” Matthew 24:36 .. 2) i’m not sure what i may have said about Christianity .. you and i have spoken about Christians being targeted, by law and social ostracizing .. i’ve sometimes noted how obama+hillary both publicly stated they’re fine with Christianity AS LONG AS it doesn’t conflict with their politics .. 3) i regularly remind the U.S. has 4-8 terms for presidents, a major hedge against monarchies, etc. i don’t jump on that train.

our memories differ.

i was, at first, accepting+tolerant of obama as president, esp seeng how deeply hopeful so many were with him.
i really wanted him to be a great president. the country was in need. he held the keys.
in office, he earned my disrespect. i’m not a fan. i’m grateful his wife refused to run for presidency. i believe she would have won. she has since shown in her podcasts and elsewhere, she was right. not a good match.

[Soloist]

Wife: just curious. Wikipedia seemed to say that “Don Colossus” was going on tour until finally been placed in the presidential library. Is that true?

[Szdfan]

I understand it. I still don’t want venerate statues, icons, and pictures.

Understood. It doesn’t upset me as I feel I understand it on a deeper level and can make the distinct. So I don’t judge them, but I don’t have a conviction to practice it.
I think Holdemans are even against photography so I understand your conviction.
The largest ICON I ever saw was not Orthodox but Anabaptist at the Amish Mennonite Cultural Center Beasley which basically is very similar idea, telling the story with art. honoring the people of Anabaptist history

But Mennonites and Amish do not venerate the mural at Behalt.

And Protestants don’t have a tradition of honoring or venerating images of saints either, which is part of what makes the behavior of Pastor Mark
Burns and other evangelical supporters of Trump so jarring.

One of the explicit critiques of Protestantism towards Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians are for practices they believed blurred the line between honor and idolatry. That’s part of why a ceremonial blessing of a giant gold statue of a sitting political leader strikes many of us as spiritually dangerous.

I would also find it unsettling if Christians were honoring and venerating the statue of Jimmy Carter that John keeps bringing up. The concern here isn’t just the statue. It’s also the quasi-religious language and ritual surrounding it.

[JohnH]

Understood. It doesn’t upset me as I feel I understand it on a deeper level and can make the distinct. So I don’t judge them, but I don’t have a conviction to practice it.
I think Holdemans are even against photography so I understand your conviction.
The largest ICON I ever saw was not Orthodox but Anabaptist at the Amish Mennonite Cultural Center Beasley which basically is very similar idea, telling the story with art. honoring the people of Anabaptist history

But Mennonites and Amish do not venerate the mural at Behalt.

And Protestants don’t have a tradition of honoring or venerating images of saints either, which is part of what makes the behavior of Pastor Mark
Burns and other evangelical supporters of Trump so jarring.

One of the explicit critiques of Protestantism towards Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians are for practices they believed blurred the line between honor and idolatry. That’s part of why a ceremonial blessing of a giant gold statue of a sitting political leader strikes many of us as spiritually dangerous.

I would also find it unsettling if Christians were honoring and venerating the statue of Jimmy Carter that John keeps bringing up. The concern here isn’t just the statue. It’s also the quasi-religious language and ritual surrounding it.

As I have spoken about repeatedly now, Protestants certainly do have a history to of conducting dedication ceremonies for new statues. Would you like more examples?

[ohio jones]

I don’t think they would see it as veneration. Certainly not idolatry, perhaps the Scripture of giving “double honor” would be more fitting for this case.

Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.

I don't think this is intended to be applied to political leaders.

If something is close enough to idolatry that a long discourse is required to explain that it isn't idolatry -- it's idolatry.

[Soloist]

But Mennonites and Amish do not venerate the mural at Behalt.

And Protestants don’t have a tradition of honoring or venerating images of saints either, which is part of what makes the behavior of Pastor Mark
Burns and other evangelical supporters of Trump so jarring.

One of the explicit critiques of Protestantism towards Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians are for practices they believed blurred the line between honor and idolatry. That’s part of why a ceremonial blessing of a giant gold statue of a sitting political leader strikes many of us as spiritually dangerous.

I would also find it unsettling if Christians were honoring and venerating the statue of Jimmy Carter that John keeps bringing up. The concern here isn’t just the statue. It’s also the quasi-religious language and ritual surrounding it.

As I have spoken about repeatedly now, Protestants certainly do have a history to of conducting dedication ceremonies for new statues. Would you like more examples?

Aside from Carter, what else did you mention? I'd object to any "religious" ceremony" from Christians surrounding any statue or building. I could accept for example a dedication of a medical ship with a religious setting I suppose.