Wife leave her husband

[Soloist]

That said, I do know of some situations where the lady being willing to stay ultimately saves her husband,

Any chance that a spouse could move out (with the assumption that it is temporary) and still love their spouse in any ways they can (e.g. sending their spouse a favorite food, or cutting some firewood, etc.) and the arrangement be just as effective in "saving" their spouse as what living with the spouse would have been?

That sounds nice, but I don’t see it… when someone’s excommunicated… it seems like either we invite them to our parties and have fun with them still or we just completely ignore them there’s in between.

[Ernie]

That said, I do know of some situations where the lady being willing to stay ultimately saves her husband,

Any chance that a spouse could move out (with the assumption that it is temporary) and still love their spouse in any ways they can (e.g. sending their spouse a favorite food, or cutting some firewood, etc.) and the arrangement be just as effective in "saving" their spouse as what living with the spouse would have been?

It would be amazing to see that. However, I have only ever seen once a spouse moves out a sort of "scorched earth" where they spend their time running around telling everyone how terrible the spouse is, and exhausting every avenue (whether legal, via church, etc.) to try to get back at the other person.

Well... that is a different problem... one that is quite common... and one that needs dealt with by the church.

[Ernie]

That said, I do know of some situations where the lady being willing to stay ultimately saves her husband,

Any chance that a spouse could move out (with the assumption that it is temporary) and still love their spouse in any ways they can (e.g. sending their spouse a favorite food, or cutting some firewood, etc.) and the arrangement be just as effective in "saving" their spouse as what living with the spouse would have been?

That sounds nice, but I don’t see it… when someone’s excommunicated… it seems like either we invite them to our parties and have fun with them still or we just completely ignore them there’s in between.

Say more... I am not sure I am following.

[Soloist]

Any chance that a spouse could move out (with the assumption that it is temporary) and still love their spouse in any ways they can (e.g. sending their spouse a favorite food, or cutting some firewood, etc.) and the arrangement be just as effective in "saving" their spouse as what living with the spouse would have been?

That sounds nice, but I don’t see it… when someone’s excommunicated… it seems like either we invite them to our parties and have fun with them still or we just completely ignore them there’s in between.

Say more... I am not sure I am following.

Well from what I have seen there are basically 2 main kinds of excommunication.
Either you follow what the Bible teaches or that heretical practice.

So excommunication isn’t the main point but it’s necessary to explain to get my point across.

Mennonites either follow the Amish style or believe the excommunicated is only barred from teaching or taking communion itself.
I would argue that if you do the latter, you end up with no real cost and you aren’t following what the Scriptures actually teach.
On the flip side if you don’t hardly speak to them and you don’t associate at all, how can you win them back?
A story of a Holdeman church that excommunicated someone and then they sent him letters and sung for him outside of his window weekly for a few weeks. Apparently it broke him pretty quickly.
This story is really rare and I see it either being buddy buddy with the excommunicated or zero association.
I see separated people generally falling into those separations with their supporters, either they condemn them or they are buddy buddy. It doesn’t really seem like people are willing to have nuance.
Am I making sense?

[Ernie]

That sounds nice, but I don’t see it… when someone’s excommunicated… it seems like either we invite them to our parties and have fun with them still or we just completely ignore them there’s in between.

Say more... I am not sure I am following.

Well from what I have seen there are basically 2 main kinds of excommunication.
Either you follow what the Bible teaches or that heretical practice.

So excommunication isn’t the main point but it’s necessary to explain to get my point across.

Mennonites either follow the Amish style or believe the excommunicated is only barred from teaching or taking communion itself.
I would argue that if you do the latter, you end up with no real cost and you aren’t following what the Scriptures actually teach.
On the flip side if you don’t hardly speak to them and you don’t associate at all, how can you win them back?
A story of a Holdeman church that excommunicated someone and then they sent him letters and sung for him outside of his window weekly for a few weeks. Apparently it broke him pretty quickly.
This story is really rare and I see it either being buddy buddy with the excommunicated or zero association.
I see separated people generally falling into those separations with their supporters, either they condemn them or they are buddy buddy. It doesn’t really seem like people are willing to have nuance.
Am I making sense?

Got it. Thank you!

Yes, someone needs to compile a book of stories about people who did the nuance and loved the person like the story you told. To be authentic, the book should probably include stories of people loving the sinner (without being buddy buddy), regardless of the outcome.

[Soloist]

Say more... I am not sure I am following.

Well from what I have seen there are basically 2 main kinds of excommunication.
Either you follow what the Bible teaches or that heretical practice.

So excommunication isn’t the main point but it’s necessary to explain to get my point across.

Mennonites either follow the Amish style or believe the excommunicated is only barred from teaching or taking communion itself.
I would argue that if you do the latter, you end up with no real cost and you aren’t following what the Scriptures actually teach.
On the flip side if you don’t hardly speak to them and you don’t associate at all, how can you win them back?
A story of a Holdeman church that excommunicated someone and then they sent him letters and sung for him outside of his window weekly for a few weeks. Apparently it broke him pretty quickly.
This story is really rare and I see it either being buddy buddy with the excommunicated or zero association.
I see separated people generally falling into those separations with their supporters, either they condemn them or they are buddy buddy. It doesn’t really seem like people are willing to have nuance.
Am I making sense?

Got it. Thank you!

Yes, someone needs to compile a book of stories about people who did the nuance and loved the person like the story you told. To be authentic, the book should probably include stories of people loving the sinner (without being buddy buddy), regardless of the outcome.

If there’s stories, I would like hearing about them. It’s not a bad idea, and I wouldn’t advise against it.

[Ernie]

Here is a story from Holmes County from the 19th century. We need more stories from today.

Josiah needed excommunicated. Everyone avoided him. Nobody tried to restore him.
Josiah was a farmer and decided to build a corn crib. Nobody came to help.
Bishop Mose Miller found out about this, had compassion on him and decided to go help him since no one else was. On a Thursday, Mose hitched up his horse and drove 5 miles to Berlin.
They didn’t talk much. Mose worked all day and went home for the evening.
Friday morning, he was inclined not to go, but he knew Josiah needed help. He knew that the Bible says we need to love such people.
So he worked all day Friday but still they were not finished. Again not much talk. Mose again went home in the evening.
Saturday morning he decided to go help again. Finished by noon. He went into the house to eat lunch. Still no talk. Never any scolding or lecturing from Mose.

After lunch, Josiah accompanied Mose to hitch up his horse.
Josiah told Mose, “I will come to church tomorrow and make a confession.”

[barnhart]

Humility is very hard.