Rarely told American history helps us understand current events

[barnhart]

If the SAVE Act, the one that requires proof of citizenship to vote, passes, would it be in effect for the 2026 mid-term elections?

My expectation is, that if it actually passes, which is doubtful, its effect will be minimal, as it would be tied up in court challenges for years. I suspect the most fruitful of these is that it is a backdoor poll tax, which is specifically forbidden, since it requires money, in the form of authenticated documents, to vote.

I will be a little surprised if it passes Congress. My guess is there is a significant number of Republican representatives who will feel nervous about adding complications that could just as easily undermine their voting block as anyone else's.

[Judas Maccabeus]

For the record, I do not vote, and have not voted for about 14 years. I do not attend demonstrations or protests, but can frequently can observe them from my balcony, which overlooks one of my fair city's main streets. I live in a condominium that gives me interaction with all kinds of people.

I do, however have opinions. One of them is that the current flavor of "Christian Nationalism" is neither Christian not "patriotic." It is, in fact, Reconstructionism dressed up in different clothes. If this ever gains ascendency it will be very bad for those of us who reject war, violence and service to the state.

[Judas Maccabeus]

If the SAVE Act, the one that requires proof of citizenship to vote, passes, would it be in effect for the 2026 mid-term elections?

My expectation is, that if it actually passes, which is doubtful, its effect will be minimal, as it would be tied up in court challenges for years. I suspect the most fruitful of these is that it is a backdoor poll tax, which is specifically forbidden, since it requires money, in the form of authenticated documents, to vote.

I will be a little surprised if it passes Congress. My guess is there is a significant number of Republican representatives who will feel nervous about adding complications that could just as easily undermine their voting block as anyone else's.

I suspect those who want to eliminate the filibuster to get this take a short term view. If it is eliminated for one party, it won't when the balance of power shifts.

[Robert]

Bottom line is that those who violently attacked the seat and institutions of government were found guilty by a jury of their peers.

Why were those who attacked the Supreme Court and was banging on the doors not presecuted? Did they not do the same thing?

[JohnH]

First of all as to the possibility of someone being a suicide bomber that dives at VIPs with a backpack you only find out they aren't when it doesn't explode, if you are incorrect, you have a mass casually situation. Do you think any reasonable personal protection service is going to allow that possibility? An unidentified person with a backpack vaulting towards your protected after breaking through police lines? She took her fate upon herself.

OK. So you think the officer did the right thing when he shot an unarmed woman?

Just wanting to fully understand your position here. You think that is the best thing the officer could have done?

Secondly, they weren't sentenced to solitary confinement, but the possibility exists that solitary confinement may have been punishment for misbehavior in jail. Do you know that it was not? You do know that IRA prisoners in Northern Ireland wound up in solitary confinement also, not because of the sentence but because of refusal to follow prison rules.

Most the January 6 protesters ended up in solitary confinement. I find it highly unlikely they all engaged in such bad misbehaviour in DC's jails that they all merited permanent solitary confinement.

Actually, right now I am registered unaffiliated. I attempted to withdraw my registration to vote and was unable to, it is very difficult in my state to do so because they believe you are trying to avoid jury service.. there are members of my family that have voted for either party, and my wife was registered Republican, I was formally registered democrat. Since there is no Republican primary in my state to speak of the real choice was in the Democratic primary and that is probably a reason most people register that way.

OK.

And I do not accept the people that attacked on January 6 were political prisoners at all. Do you really know what a political prisoner is? They were tried for civil crimes for beating up policeman for attacking the capital and other similar crimes. Only people that were shown to have committed assault or had broken through a police line were prosecuted. Do you think they should not prosecute them just because they simply had political motivations. Do you think crimes created with a political motivation? Should have some sort of blanket amnesty?

Let's be quite frank here. They were arrested and charged because they were the most visible opponents of the new party in power. That's what political prisoners are.

Overall, it's not a good direction for the country to move in. Have you paused to consider the future if this kind of thing becomes normal? The end result is when an opposing party wins, it tries to jail all of its political opponents.

Let me assure you if this Christian nationalist movement gathers power and begins to enact its program unfettered, you will probably suffer more than me or perhaps you won't. My citizenship is irrevocable seeing it is constitutional in origin. Is yours?

I generally treasure my citizenship in a heavenly kingdom and don't sit around worrying about conspiracy theories about earthly governments.

[Jazman]

They violated Caesar's law. He has the sword, committed to him by God to punish evildoers. People who attack the police are evil doers.

The courts and juries were administering justice. Got a problem with that?

The only person who got killed was a protester who didn’t attack police either.

I generally have a problem with Mennonites who display an excessive amount of delight in police brutality, harsh prison sentences, and “justice”. Just because the people on the receiving end are people you don’t like doesn’t make it the way of Jesus to delight in them being imprisoned, tortured, and so forth.

Defending the J6ers now too... (I noticed the other day they're suing the police who were following their God-given duty to keep the maga mob from breaking the law and killing people... up is down, down is up, right is wrong, wrong is right.)

[Valerie]

It’s interesting how the only legitimate elections are the ones that Republicans win. Somehow, mysteriously, all those allegations of fraud disappeared when Trump won in 2024. It’s as if the rigged, fraud-filled system just stopped so that Trump could win. Huh.

My hunch is that whenever Democrats win again, we’ll hear all kinds of fraud allegations, but when Republicans do, then…nothing. Funny how that works.

If the was an election that Biden really won, the American people were very blind to his condition and cannot be trusted to see clearly to vote, but we will never believe he won- Covid helped the election results, proven by the fact after trying relentlessly to take Trump down, he won again, even every swing state.

I’ve been voting 50 years, the 2020 election was first time I knew in my heart of hearts fraudulent voting tipped the scale. Oh I realize democrats never commit fraud, the blue states prove how honest they are. I know it can happen on both sides, Trump at least fairly one this time and that is why we want voter id & in person voting, unlike those who depend on cheating.

Which will disenfranchise the poor who frequently lack the records to meet the high bar, and lack the economic means to get them, the elderly who have difficulty getting physically to the polls, and women, who will have to track down and get authenticated marriage records. I moved documents for the mission I formerly worked for, it is frequently difficult and requires multiple trips. Particularly, I found marriage records hard to find. The copy the preacher gave you is worthless for this purpose; you will need an authenticated and sealed copy from the clerk of the court. (I dare you to try to pass an unsealed document off in a federsl government setting, they won't as a rule, touch it) Oh, yes, noncitizens legally present in the country are issued "real ID" driver's licenses by law. That does not prove citizenship. This would create chaos. This may be the objective.

It is a bald-faced attempt to "adjust" the voter pool to favor "his" people. Then, again, it might be ruled unconstitutional under the 24th Amendment as a poll tax.

Those who believe enough illegal aliens are tilting elections are being gaslighted.

Not gaslighted, have listened to leftist governments themselves who “stated” they believe they should vote.

I find this defense so lacking in truth and legitimacy that the poor cannot get proper documentation. Look- it is a fact that not every capable person votes anyway, but people have had plenty of time to figure this out.

I am not worrying this could backfire on Republicans if it passes and they lose elections. I’m more concerned that the obvious fraudulent voting will continue and if someone cares enough about either people or policies they will find a way. If they don’t, then they will be among the many people who chose not to show up on Election Day.

Where I work I’ve had to card people to sell alcohol, and cigarettes, have had to take passport photos for obvious foreigners-

The Democrats are lying in their claims and guise of compassion for those who “supposedly” have no way to get proper ID and make themselves obvious by doing so. I’m fact polls continue to show that over 85% of Americans WANT the voter ID the Republicans are proposing and over 70% are Democrats- it’s the “Democrats in”power” who seem afraid to vote for it.

It’s equal for everyone- voter ID is an equal opportunity (Democrats, Republican, Independent) requirement, not discriminatory at all.

[Szdfan]

They violated Caesar's law. He has the sword, committed to him by God to punish evildoers. People who attack the police are evil doers.

The courts and juries were administering justice. Got a problem with that?

The only person who got killed was a protester who didn’t attack police either.

I generally have a problem with Mennonites who display an excessive amount of delight in police brutality, harsh prison sentences, and “justice”. Just because the people on the receiving end are people you don’t like doesn’t make it the way of Jesus to delight in them being imprisoned, tortured, and so forth.

Defending the J6ers now too... (I noticed the other day they're suing the police who were following their God-given duty to keep the maga mob from breaking the law and killing people... up is down, down is up, right is wrong, wrong is right.)

Somehow the police both let the J6ers into the Capitol while simultaneously brutalizing them.

[JohnH]

Defending the J6ers now too... (I noticed the other day they're suing the police who were following their God-given duty to keep the maga mob from breaking the law and killing people... up is down, down is up, right is wrong, wrong is right.)

I'm more concerned with "defending shooting and killing people". I have said many times on this forum (and personally advised people, as well) not to go to protests like the January 6 protest.

With that said, I don't think summary execution of a woman at the January 6 protest is a good thing.

[Soloist]

With that said, I don't think summary execution of a woman at the January 6 protest is a good thing.

I don’t think it’s a good thing when a child with a backpack gets killed in Iraq either but it’s near impossible to know if someone with a backpack is a credible enemy or threat and someone has to make a call. If you enter restricted spaces, you run a risk of death. This is not new and has nothing to do with politics.