Rarely told American history helps us understand current events

[Judas Maccabeus]

You're calling the VP and the Congress "illegitimate government"?

It’s interesting how the only legitimate elections are the ones that Republicans win. Somehow, mysteriously, all those allegations of fraud disappeared when Trump won in 2024. It’s as if the rigged, fraud-filled system just stopped so that Trump could win. Huh.

My hunch is that whenever Democrats win again, we’ll hear all kinds of fraud allegations, but when Republicans do, then…nothing. Funny how that works.

If the was an election that Biden really won, the American people were very blind to his condition and cannot be trusted to see clearly to vote, but we will never believe he won- Covid helped the election results, proven by the fact after trying relentlessly to take Trump down, he won again, even every swing state.

I’ve been voting 50 years, the 2020 election was first time I knew in my heart of hearts fraudulent voting tipped the scale. Oh I realize democrats never commit fraud, the blue states prove how honest they are. I know it can happen on both sides, Trump at least fairly one this time and that is why we want voter id & in person voting, unlike those who depend on cheating.

Which will disenfranchise the poor who frequently lack the records to meet the high bar, and lack the economic means to get them, the elderly who have difficulty getting physically to the polls, and women, who will have to track down and get authenticated marriage records. I moved documents for the mission I formerly worked for, it is frequently difficult and requires multiple trips. Particularly, I found marriage records hard to find. The copy the preacher gave you is worthless for this purpose; you will need an authenticated and sealed copy from the clerk of the court. (I dare you to try to pass an unsealed document off in a federsl government setting, they won't as a rule, touch it) Oh, yes, noncitizens legally present in the country are issued "real ID" driver's licenses by law. That does not prove citizenship. This would create chaos. This may be the objective.

It is a bald-faced attempt to "adjust" the voter pool to favor "his" people. Then, again, it might be ruled unconstitutional under the 24th Amendment as a poll tax.

Those who believe enough illegal aliens are tilting elections are being gaslighted.

[ken_sylvania]

It’s interesting how the only legitimate elections are the ones that Republicans win. Somehow, mysteriously, all those allegations of fraud disappeared when Trump won in 2024. It’s as if the rigged, fraud-filled system just stopped so that Trump could win. Huh.

My hunch is that whenever Democrats win again, we’ll hear all kinds of fraud allegations, but when Republicans do, then…nothing. Funny how that works.

If the was an election that Biden really won, the American people were very blind to his condition and cannot be trusted to see clearly to vote, but we will never believe he won- Covid helped the election results, proven by the fact after trying relentlessly to take Trump down, he won again, even every swing state.

I’ve been voting 50 years, the 2020 election was first time I knew in my heart of hearts fraudulent voting tipped the scale. Oh I realize democrats never commit fraud, the blue states prove how honest they are. I know it can happen on both sides, Trump at least fairly one this time and that is why we want voter id & in person voting, unlike those who depend on cheating.

Which will disenfranchise the poor who frequently lack the records to meet the high bar, and lack the economic means to get them, the elderly who have difficulty getting physically to the polls, and women, who will have to track down and get authenticated marriage records. I moved documents for the mission I formerly worked for, it is frequently difficult and requires multiple trips. Particularly, I found marriage records hard to find. The copy the preacher gave you is worthless for this purpose; you will need an authenticated and sealed copy from the clerk of the court. (I dare you to try to pass an unsealed document off in a federsl government setting, they won't as a rule, touch it) Oh, yes, noncitizens legally present in the country are issued "real ID" driver's licenses by law. That does not prove citizenship. This would create chaos. This may be the objective.

It is a bald-faced attempt to "adjust" the voter pool to favor "his" people. Then, again, it might be ruled unconstitutional under the 24th Amendment as a poll tax.

Those who believe enough illegal aliens are tilting elections are being gaslighted.

I suppose the folks who believe a sizeable percentage of MAGA voters are senile or stupid really aren't worried about losing power at the polls then....

[Judas Maccabeus]

No, They went for the low hanging fruit, the easy-to-prove charges, and jailed many of them. The conviction rate was actually quite high. This was a choice to ensure conviction.

Unsurprising when they dedicated ⅓ of the entire resources of the FBI to it, as if there weren't other problems in America worth investigating.

Treason would have been tough to prove. They were clearly organized, and they were clearly engaged in an attack to prevent the transfer of power. If they could have convinced a jury that this constituted "wageing war" is anyone's guess.

So, in other words, they weren't guilty of treason and it would have not been possible to prove. They didn't try to convict anybody of treason.

Bottom line is that those who violently attacked the seat and institutions of government were found guilty by a jury of their peers.

Did you support the prisoners essentially being tortured in prison and placed in solitary confinement? JM, I find your level of delight at these people being convicted and imprisoned a bit... concerning. I don't like to see that happen, even to people who are my political enemies.

They violated Caesar's law. He has the sword, committed to him by God to punish evildoers. People who attack the police are evil doers.

The courts and juries were administering justice. Got a problem with that?

[Judas Maccabeus]

If the was an election that Biden really won, the American people were very blind to his condition and cannot be trusted to see clearly to vote, but we will never believe he won- Covid helped the election results, proven by the fact after trying relentlessly to take Trump down, he won again, even every swing state.

I’ve been voting 50 years, the 2020 election was first time I knew in my heart of hearts fraudulent voting tipped the scale. Oh I realize democrats never commit fraud, the blue states prove how honest they are. I know it can happen on both sides, Trump at least fairly one this time and that is why we want voter id & in person voting, unlike those who depend on cheating.

Which will disenfranchise the poor who frequently lack the records to meet the high bar, and lack the economic means to get them, the elderly who have difficulty getting physically to the polls, and women, who will have to track down and get authenticated marriage records. I moved documents for the mission I formerly worked for, it is frequently difficult and requires multiple trips. Particularly, I found marriage records hard to find. The copy the preacher gave you is worthless for this purpose; you will need an authenticated and sealed copy from the clerk of the court. (I dare you to try to pass an unsealed document off in a federsl government setting, they won't as a rule, touch it) Oh, yes, noncitizens legally present in the country are issued "real ID" driver's licenses by law. That does not prove citizenship. This would create chaos. This may be the objective.

It is a bald-faced attempt to "adjust" the voter pool to favor "his" people. Then, again, it might be ruled unconstitutional under the 24th Amendment as a poll tax.

Those who believe enough illegal aliens are tilting elections are being gaslighted.

I suppose the folks who believe a sizeable percentage of MAGA voters are senile or stupid really aren't worried about losing power at the polls then....

It may indeed backfire, since the only portable document that is generally right at hand is a passport.

[JohnH]

They violated Caesar's law. He has the sword, committed to him by God to punish evildoers. People who attack the police are evil doers.

The courts and juries were administering justice. Got a problem with that?

The only person who got killed was a protester who didn’t attack police either.

I generally have a problem with Mennonites who display an excessive amount of delight in police brutality, harsh prison sentences, and “justice”. Just because the people on the receiving end are people you don’t like doesn’t make it the way of Jesus to delight in them being imprisoned, tortured, and so forth.

[Judas Maccabeus]

They violated Caesar's law. He has the sword, committed to him by God to punish evildoers. People who attack the police are evil doers.

The courts and juries were administering justice. Got a problem with that?

The only person who got killed was a protester who didn’t attack police either.

I generally have a problem with Mennonites who display an excessive amount of delight in police brutality, harsh prison sentences, and “justice”. Just because the people on the receiving end are people you don’t like doesn’t make it the way of Jesus to delight in them being imprisoned, tortured, and so forth.

First of all, stop trying to provide alternate truth, which is effectively a lie. On video this woman attempted to vault through a window, that was secured by the police. She was carrying a backpack. Anyone with any idea of what people protecting Government officials will deduce from that is one word, suicide bomber. If you attempt to breach a line, that is being used to protect government officials, and you're carrying a backpack you were taking your fate upon yourself.

Secondly, I would not regard the prison sentences given to these people as harsh, in fact, I would regard them as being relatively lenient for what was done. Beating up policeman to gain entrance to a closed government building is not stealing a loaf of bread.. For the record, I also considered appropriate when the street thugs that terrorize us occasionally are locked up by the police as well taken to court, and given a sentence. Cesar does not carry the sword in vain, and his duty is to keep order. Ultimately, he is a minister of God, with a job to do. You may not like the politics of Cesar at that point, but the law is the law.

Thirdly, there is considerable difference of opinion as to whether they were "tortured" or not. They are completing claims, and if such people believe they were tortured, or held in solitary inappropriately, the courts are open, and there are lawyers. I do not recall hearing of a case, where any of them collected damages for his treatment in prison if you know of such a case, and have a citation from a reasonable news source I'd like to see it. For me DC is the local news. I haven't heard of one yet.

And it's not "people I don't like" it is people that are attempting to overthrow the government that protects us and install an alternate Christian nationalist government. If you think Mennonites are gonna fare well under a Christian nationalist government think again. Invariably such governments will persecute non-resistant people. I pray for the government in power that it act in adjust and even handed way. That those people that were imprisoned for attacking police were tried in open court, given sentences, represented justice. We can expect nothing else.

[R7ehr]

If the SAVE Act, the one that requires proof of citizenship to vote, passes, would it be in effect for the 2026 mid-term elections?

[Judas Maccabeus]

If the SAVE Act, the one that requires proof of citizenship to vote, passes, would it be in effect for the 2026 mid-term elections?

My expectation is, that if it actually passes, which is doubtful, its effect will be minimal, as it would be tied up in court challenges for years. I suspect the most fruitful of these is that it is a backdoor poll tax, which is specifically forbidden, since it requires money, in the form of authenticated documents, to vote.

[JohnH]

\
First of all, stop trying to provide alternate truth, which is effectively a lie. On video this woman attempted to vault through a window, that was secured by the police. She was carrying a backpack. Anyone with any idea of what people protecting Government officials will deduce from that is one word, suicide bomber. If you attempt to breach a line, that is being used to protect government officials, and you're carrying a backpack you were taking your fate upon yourself.

She was, in fact, not a suicide bomber, and I think it's a bit questionable to posthumously conduct a trial that she was. In any case, the police officer acted as judge, jury, and executioner, and executed her right there and on the spot. That was the only fatal casualty that day.

Secondly, I would not regard the prison sentences given to these people as harsh, in fact, I would regard them as being relatively lenient for what was done. Beating up policeman to gain entrance to a closed government building is not stealing a loaf of bread.. For the record, I also considered appropriate when the street thugs that terrorize us occasionally are locked up by the police as well taken to court, and given a sentence. Cesar does not carry the sword in vain, and his duty is to keep order. Ultimately, he is a minister of God, with a job to do. You may not like the politics of Cesar at that point, but the law is the law.

You think locking people up in solitary confinement is an appropriate sentence? Really?

As far as being a "minister of God", would you concur that the current administration is also a "minister of God" when it commutes or pardons those sentences and post-humously awards Ashli Babbitt military honours along with a civil payout to her family of millions of dollars?

Thirdly, there is considerable difference of opinion as to whether they were "tortured" or not. They are completing claims, and if such people believe they were tortured, or held in solitary inappropriately, the courts are open, and there are lawyers. I do not recall hearing of a case, where any of them collected damages for his treatment in prison if you know of such a case, and have a citation from a reasonable news source I'd like to see it. For me DC is the local news. I haven't heard of one yet.

The lawyers for these prisoners tried repeatedly to even be able to visit with their clients at all. They only made any progress at all once a Republican Congress was elected, who took efforts to change some things for these prisoners. Overall, I think it's bad to have political prisoners, and I think it's bad to try to subject them to the harshest possible punishments. A good question to ask one's self is, "What if the roles were reversed?"

And it's not "people I don't like" it is people that are attempting to overthrow the government that protects us and install an alternate Christian nationalist government.

The January 6 protest was not about installing an alternate Christian nationalist government. That is an extreme kind of conspiracy theory that has no basis in fact. It's hard to tell what their plans were at all - simply occupying the physical capitol building doesn't mean whoever holds the speaker's ceremonial mace is now the speaker of the House; nor would it mean they could alter the election. Congress has met in other places many times, such as in York, Baltimore, Lancaster, and many other places.

If you think Mennonites are gonna fare well under a Christian nationalist government think again. Invariably such governments will persecute non-resistant people. I pray for the government in power that it act in adjust and even handed way. That those people that were imprisoned for attacking police were tried in open court, given sentences, represented justice. We can expect nothing else.

I don't think political prosecutions represent "justice".

In any case if you would to know some actual concerns I have about plain people and involvement with government... I suggest you PM me and we can talk on the phone further. So far, though, you have unwittingly sided with the plain people who are involved in rather sordid ways with government, and you probably are not even aware of it. I would advise you to open yourself up a little bit to being educated about what is actually going on, and leave aside your old artisan alignments which I suspect still cloud your judgment. (A simple thought experiment is to ask yourself what party you and your family supported and voted for.)

[Judas Maccabeus]

\
First of all, stop trying to provide alternate truth, which is effectively a lie. On video this woman attempted to vault through a window, that was secured by the police. She was carrying a backpack. Anyone with any idea of what people protecting Government officials will deduce from that is one word, suicide bomber. If you attempt to breach a line, that is being used to protect government officials, and you're carrying a backpack you were taking your fate upon yourself.

She was, in fact, not a suicide bomber, and I think it's a bit questionable to posthumously conduct a trial that she was. In any case, the police officer acted as judge, jury, and executioner, and executed her right there and on the spot. That was the only fatal casualty that day.

Secondly, I would not regard the prison sentences given to these people as harsh, in fact, I would regard them as being relatively lenient for what was done. Beating up policeman to gain entrance to a closed government building is not stealing a loaf of bread.. For the record, I also considered appropriate when the street thugs that terrorize us occasionally are locked up by the police as well taken to court, and given a sentence. Cesar does not carry the sword in vain, and his duty is to keep order. Ultimately, he is a minister of God, with a job to do. You may not like the politics of Cesar at that point, but the law is the law.

You think locking people up in solitary confinement is an appropriate sentence? Really?

As far as being a "minister of God", would you concur that the current administration is also a "minister of God" when it commutes or pardons those sentences and post-humously awards Ashli Babbitt military honours along with a civil payout to her family of millions of dollars?

Thirdly, there is considerable difference of opinion as to whether they were "tortured" or not. They are completing claims, and if such people believe they were tortured, or held in solitary inappropriately, the courts are open, and there are lawyers. I do not recall hearing of a case, where any of them collected damages for his treatment in prison if you know of such a case, and have a citation from a reasonable news source I'd like to see it. For me DC is the local news. I haven't heard of one yet.

The lawyers for these prisoners tried repeatedly to even be able to visit with their clients at all. They only made any progress at all once a Republican Congress was elected, who took efforts to change some things for these prisoners. Overall, I think it's bad to have political prisoners, and I think it's bad to try to subject them to the harshest possible punishments. A good question to ask one's self is, "What if the roles were reversed?"

And it's not "people I don't like" it is people that are attempting to overthrow the government that protects us and install an alternate Christian nationalist government.

The January 6 protest was not about installing an alternate Christian nationalist government. That is an extreme kind of conspiracy theory that has no basis in fact. It's hard to tell what their plans were at all - simply occupying the physical capitol building doesn't mean whoever holds the speaker's ceremonial mace is now the speaker of the House; nor would it mean they could alter the election. Congress has met in other places many times, such as in York, Baltimore, Lancaster, and many other places.

If you think Mennonites are gonna fare well under a Christian nationalist government think again. Invariably such governments will persecute non-resistant people. I pray for the government in power that it act in adjust and even handed way. That those people that were imprisoned for attacking police were tried in open court, given sentences, represented justice. We can expect nothing else.

I don't think political prosecutions represent "justice".

In any case if you would to know some actual concerns I have about plain people and involvement with government... I suggest you PM me and we can talk on the phone further. So far, though, you have unwittingly sided with the plain people who are involved in rather sordid ways with government, and you probably are not even aware of it. I would advise you to open yourself up a little bit to being educated about what is actually going on, and leave aside your old artisan alignments which I suspect still cloud your judgment. (A simple thought experiment is to ask yourself what party you and your family supported and voted for.)

First of all as to the possibility of someone being a suicide bomber that dives at VIPs with a backpack you only find out they aren't when it doesn't explode, if you are incorrect, you have a mass casually situation. Do you think any reasonable personal protection service is going to allow that possibility? An unidentified person with a backpack vaulting towards your protected after breaking through police lines? She took her fate upon herself.

Secondly, they weren't sentenced to solitary confinement, but the possibility exists that solitary confinement may have been punishment for misbehavior in jail. Do you know that it was not? You do know that IRA prisoners in Northern Ireland wound up in solitary confinement also, not because of the sentence but because of refusal to follow prison rules.

Actually, right now I am registered unaffiliated. I attempted to withdraw my registration to vote and was unable to, it is very difficult in my state to do so because they believe you are trying to avoid jury service.. there are members of my family that have voted for either party, and my wife was registered Republican, I was formally registered democrat. Since there is no Republican primary in my state to speak of the real choice was in the Democratic primary and that is probably a reason most people register that way.

And I do not accept the people that attacked on January 6 were political prisoners at all. Do you really know what a political prisoner is? They were tried for civil crimes for beating up policeman for attacking the capital and other similar crimes. Only people that were shown to have committed assault or had broken through a police line were prosecuted. Do you think they should not prosecute them just because they simply had political motivations. Do you think crimes created with a political motivation? Should have some sort of blanket amnesty?

Let me assure you if this Christian nationalist movement gathers power and begins to enact its program unfettered, you will probably suffer more than me or perhaps you won't. My citizenship is irrevocable seeing it is constitutional in origin. Is yours?