Civil War-again?

[Valerie]

.....
If ICE withdraws, the violence stops. Why not do that?

Does it? From what I've seen on the BBC (which people I know who mainly use Fox News say is 'liberal news'), many or perhaps even most of the illegals they are targeting are already wanted for more serious crimes, some going back decades.

Yes, stopping the effort to apprehend these people who are guilty of other crimes (that is, other than illegal presence in the country) will stop the violence connected with ICE operations, but it doesn't appear that it will stop the other crimes, like assault & battery, robbery, rape, and murder.

Deporting violent criminals is a good idea. But no reliable source I can find says that's what they are doing.

I would be interested in links to the BBC reporting you are talking about, because I do think the BBC is generally careful with facts.

Here are some of the things I am seeing:

https://www.fox9.com/news/ice-minnesota ... d-jan-2026

When you look at the overall number of more than 2,000 arrests in Minnesota, 5.2% of those arrested in ICE operations in recent weeks are violent criminals.

https://www.cato.org/blog/5-ice-detaine ... onvictions

5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions, 73% No Convictions

That's a BIG change. Before, most of the people detained by ICE had criminal convictions, often serious ones.

Well you’re not watching the right channels where Homeland Security is sharing a long list of violant criminals, their pictures etc, I think you miss a lot when you’re not seeing the heads of the various departments actually sharing these things. They’re not necessarily immediately deported either as President Trump is concerned they will just come back. Places like Minneapolis releases them back into the public. This has been one of the big problems in Minneapolis is lack of cooperation.

It’s been very helpful to watch senate hearings on what’s happening in Minneapolis. It’s been very telling the amount of whistleblowers and now they have people actually investigating instead of ignoring and intimidating them.
There will be more of the worse criminals arrested without obstruction of them trying to do their “lawful” jobs.

[temporal1]

P.37:

Good had gone there to track and block the agents. (She used her car.)

I don't remember what day it was when I saw the report on illegals who were also wanted for violent crimes. If no one else saw that, fine; forget I wrote that.

I certainly did read that, but I don't chose to pursue it further.

i believe you.

Additionally, i’ve read similar, there’s an abundance of information; so much, it must take dedication (blinders) to be unaware.

In my view, on this informal Anabaptist discussion forum, esp between members who are known to one another, a person’s word should be respected as their honest opinion, experience, without being accused of lying or believing lies. It’s happened to me and others.

In my view, a disclaimer should not be required with every forum post. It’s reasonable to presume these are honest personal opinions and experiences. And valuable. It requires effort to participate.

No member here is a paid professional journalist that i’m aware. Some are well educated and possibly actual scholars, some have been published. Some are amatuer sleuths. Some are wannabe potentates. Thankfully, the forum has moderators (to protect us from ourselves).

[JohnH]

Someone convicted of 34 felonies is not a felon? Each felony can result in a year or more of prison time. I would have recommended mercifully only giving him a year for each one. The only reason he was not convicted of more was due to political power. Listen to Jack Smith's testimony.

So you think the correct posture for a Christian is to incarcerate people for life (presuming Trump's lifespan wouldn't exceed 110 years) for the crime of...

... putting some item in the wrong category in QuickBooks.

By that standard, I should not only be locked up for life, but my entire family should be too. You wouldn't believe how many mistakes I've made in QuickBooks.

[JohnH]

Deporting violent criminals is a good idea. But no reliable source I can find says that's what they are doing.

Is it somehow wrong or bad if ICE deports people who are simply illegal aliens who entered without inspection, or foreigners who overstay their visas?

I want to clearly understand what your position here is.

[JimFoxvog]

We pray. We vote. We trust the good Lord.

Yes. We can agree on some things!

No, add to your list violently protesting. So we don’t agree. Obstruction & impeding. That’s what your side does. Defend lawlessness. Violently breaking into Church service last week is NOT praying, it was motivated by an anti-Christ spirit.

We agree that violently protesting is wrong. I regularly make comments to those resisting tyranny that violence is a tactic that backfires, as well as being morally wrong. I refer people to MLK, Jr., and Gandhi.

There was nothing violent about protesting in the church, but it should have been done by members of that church, not outsiders. I did not approve.

Do you defend lawlessness? It seems so in your defense of the acting president, who routinely ignores and breaks the law. You defend ICE, which breaks into homes without a judicial warrant and regularly uses excessive force. Let's not forget the people they kill.

Can we agree to pray together for peace in our cities?

[JohnH]

There was nothing violent about protesting in the church, but it should have been done by members of that church, not outsiders. I did not approve.

Actually, according to the members of that church, it was quite violent. The protesters came in and screamed at children and then blocked them from being able to leave or go up and down the stairwells. (They were in Sunday school.)

I consider that unacceptable. That isn't a "protest".

Do you defend lawlessness?

No.

It seems so in your defense of the acting president, who routinely ignores and breaks the law.

That is false. There was a highly political prosecution that somehow found him guilty of... misclassifying transactions in QuickBooks. That's something that I've said I'm also obviously guilty of, and so is basically anyone else who uses QuickBooks. Such a law is foolish and shouldn't be on the books.

The remedy, though, for such obvious political prosecution is the ballot box, and the American people spoke decisively that enough is enough.

You defend ICE, which breaks into homes without a judicial warrant

That's because the laws of this country are that they don't need a warrant. Much like the ATF, they can enter if there is reasonable suspicion. This has been the case for a long time.

and regularly uses excessive force.

I have not seen evidence that they do so.

Let's not forget the people they kill.

I am more than happy to "forget" people who decide to resist arrest and generally put themselves into violent, dangerous situations. That is quite unlawful. It is not wise at all to bring a gun to try to confront the government, and then resist a lawful arrest. It is even less wise to make a motion like reaching for a firearm when you are being arrested.

The Bible speaks to this: "The magistrate does not bear the sword in vain."

Can we agree to pray together for peace in our cities?

Yes. But I think part of that would be to stop making excuses for the people who do things like barricade churches and scream at children and call them Nazis. (I would be glad to provide more evidence of this if you want.)

[ohio jones]

That’s what your side does.

Taking sides is what leads to civil war. Followers of Jesus are on the same side, even when they disagree.

[ohio jones]

I don't know if it's possible to discuss this subject without getting political, but please make a concerted effort to do so if you don't want the thread moved.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

This thread is not in Politics. It is not in Current Events. Take those topics to the existing threads on those subjects.

[Valerie]

That’s what your side does.

Taking sides is what leads to civil war. Followers of Jesus are on the same side, even when they disagree.

Well politically speaking I meant, not Scripturslly.

[Bootstrap]

Deporting violent criminals is a good idea. But no reliable source I can find says that's what they are doing.

Is it somehow wrong or bad if ICE deports people who are simply illegal aliens who entered without inspection, or foreigners who overstay their visas?

I want to clearly understand what your position here is.

I started a new thread for that:

https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.ph ... 11#p294311