Why do Swiss Anabaptists practice ethnic separatism from other Anabaptists?

[Southerner]

Would I need to be re-baptized in order to join the Holdemans despite being baptized in the Mennonite church?

[Ernie]

Actually no, it's mostly not a thing among most of us. I can't speak for all, but I dare to say most of us churches listed on churchindex.com would not excommunicate someone who leaves for another church listed on churchindex.

That's actually part of the criteria.

https://map.churchindex.org/church-criteria.php
"Recognizing that we, as individual Christ-centered, Bible-based churches, are a part of the collective worldwide body of Christ, our index does not include any churches or groups that claim to be the true church at the exclusion of others listed in this database."

[JohnH]

Is it still a thing among the Holdemans to excommunicate anyone leaving their church for another plain church?

Yes, like other plain groups, we don’t tolerate people leaving to go to (nearly always) less-conservative group.

If someone thinks our church isn’t worth staying in and that another church is better, I’m not sure why they care so much about what church thinks.

Consider this question: Is it still a thing among the other plain churches to have church splits and for members to leave to go to a church that has less rules?

I did not specify less plain, but since you did, for clarity what happens if they leave the Holdeman and go to an Amish church? Or a Horning church?

That almost never happens.

One former seeker family associates with a branch of Wengers. They never joined so are not formally expelled. The Wengers have not made them formal members either.

Actually no, it's mostly not a thing among most of us. I can't speak for all, but I dare to say most of us churches listed on churchindex.com would not excommunicate someone who leaves for another church listed on churchindex.

Nor if one departs for a church not conservative enough to be on there, such as the non-nonresistant wing of RNoC, or various evangelical churches. I disagree with this.

So I ask you a question: If the Holdeman church would excommunicate members for joining another church listed on church index, why are you so offended that church index does not list the Holdemans? Would you please stop trying to make this about ethnicity? Seems to me there are other factors at play.

I also expressed disappointment Apostolic Christians aren’t on there. I think they are a valuable church for seekers, and in many countries, cities, and states are the only plain Anabaptist presence that exists.

The words of Jesus come to mind, "For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measure to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Matthew 7:2-3

Well, Eastern churches are on churchindex who would likely expel someone who left to go to a BMA church. Yet they are both merrily listed.

Overall, I don’t get why plain Anabaptists think the freedom to go to a less conservative church is somehow a good thing.

[mike]

Well, Eastern churches are on churchindex who would likely expel someone who left to go to a BMA church. Yet they are both merrily listed.

Eastern Mennonite churches don't expel people just for going to other churches. We have multiple ex-Eastern members in our congregation who simply chose to attend other churches. They weren't excommunicated or expelled, and they aren't considered apostates by Eastern.

[JohnH]

Well, Eastern churches are on churchindex who would likely expel someone who left to go to a BMA church. Yet they are both merrily listed.

Eastern Mennonite churches don't expel people just for going to other churches. We have multiple ex-Eastern members in our congregation who simply chose to attend other churches. They weren't excommunicated or expelled, and they aren't considered apostates by Eastern.

Interesting. I knew a young man where that wasn’t the case (he got expelled for playing volleyball with the youth at the Pilgrim/Hope church he had been attending).

[barnhart]

Eastern Mennonite churches don't expel people just for going to other churches. We have multiple ex-Eastern members in our congregation who simply chose to attend other churches. They weren't excommunicated or expelled, and they aren't considered apostates by Eastern.

I'm unfamiliar with this, what groups practice this?

[Ernie]

Well, Eastern churches are on churchindex who would likely expel someone who left to go to a BMA church. Yet they are both merrily listed.

Eastern Mennonite churches don't expel people just for going to other churches. We have multiple ex-Eastern members in our congregation who simply chose to attend other churches. They weren't excommunicated or expelled, and they aren't considered apostates by Eastern.

Interesting. I knew a young man where that wasn’t the case (he got expelled for playing volleyball with the youth at the Pilgrim/Hope church he had been attending).

Nearly anything can get you expelled in more conservative churches if you have a rebellious spirit and do not honor your commitment to submit to the church. If a person doesn't want to submit, they can always be a person of integrity, not be rebellious, and leave. Then they won't get expelled.

Many people have attempted to honor their commitments to the church they were a part of, and at some point decided to withdraw membership or changes churches. These folks rarely get expelled or excommunicated.

Conversely, in separatist churches, you will get excommunicated no matter which church you go to. You will get excommunicated even if you had upright character.

[JohnH]

Conversely, in separatist churches, you will get excommunicated no matter which church you go to. You will get excommunicated even if you had upright character.

An alternative viewpoint is that churches like the Holdemans consider that if someone has a concern about the church, they should stay and resolve the concern.

If it can’t be resolved and they decide the church is apostate, then why should they care if such a church expels them?

Overall, nearly everyone who leaves a plain church does so to migrate to a church with a few less “rules”. Holdemans have discerned that the Bible doesn’t teach we should do that, and doing so is a sign of a spiritual problem.

[ohio jones]

An alternative viewpoint is that churches like the Holdemans consider that if someone has a concern about the church, they should stay and resolve the concern.

If it can’t be resolved and they decide the church is apostate, then why should they care if such a church expels them?

Not all unresolved concerns involve apostasy.

Do Holdemans ever facilitate a peaceful transfer of membership to a non-Holdeman church, as might happen for example between Southeastern and Midwest when someone moves for reasons unrelated to the churches involved?

[JohnH]

Do Holdemans ever facilitate a peaceful transfer of membership to a non-Holdeman church, as might happen for example between Southeastern and Midwest when someone moves for reasons unrelated to the churches involved?

No. If someone needed to move between regions, there is likely another Holdeman church already established or else they could move to a new region without one and eventually organise a new congregation.

I would view Midwest and Southeastern to be (generally speaking) the same denomination.