Szdfan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 12:09 pm
I think words do matter because some participants here are attempting to create an epistemological fog which makes it impossible to criticize the government because nothing means anything. It’s a version of Bill Clinton’s “depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.” It’s weaponized nuance intended to obfuscate, not understand more deeply the complexity of the world. So yes, in this case, words matter.
Exactly.
If they are accused of trafficking fentanyl to the US, surely they deserve a trial to see if they are guilty. I accuse you, BANG! is not exactly due process. The Coast Guard routinely intercepts drug boats.
If the US is actually in a war, what exactly provoked it and what are the military objectives? Is it an Authorized Use of Military Force? Or a Declared War? Congress has not authorized either. None of this has been clearly stated.
So why are they killing people? How can this be legal or moral? Just accusing someone of a crime does not make them guilty.
Looks like Admiral Alvin Holsey, the head of U.S. Southern Command retired early and stepped down, and there are reports he is doing so because of these operations.
3 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
If one is on a “suicide mission” so to speak, it is grievous that they were on a mission that would destroy many more lives than that were lost- and if it ends up they STOP the endless journeys of destroying lives & souls by illegal drugs to line the pockets of evil men it’s very grievous but perhaps necessary. I’ve listened to the many press conferences about it & it’s certain those making decisions have access to intelligence that we “here” never will.
I hope those that claim the deep faith they have (example Trumps press secretary) would know better than to lie. We may not agree with what’s happening but we do have to at least acknowledge the intent is to “save lives”.
However stopping the abundance of lethal drugs will not get to the “root” of what causes people to turn to drugs to begin with. Still- the problem in our country is enormous.
It’s the role of eartthly governments to protect and defend their legal law-abiding citizens and their borders.
Without, no earthly nations.
It’s the role of Christians to share Truth, to convert hearts+minds, which Christians do, no matter their geography or under which gov system. It’s no small thing to recognize, adversity seems to inspire depth of faithfulness.
Studying Hosea and Gomer hit home. God allows suffering for His purpose, to bring each of us close to Him.
He knows how ridiculous we can be, how stubborn, how wrong. Who ever was tested harder than Hosea? Who ever sinned worse than Gomer? Hosea was faithful; in God’s time, Gomer was won. God prevailed.
Gomer came to love God without bounds. That’s conversion! Then God restored Gomer to Hosea. The unthinkable. Amazing.
Hosea is about God’s faithfulness, not the morality of human violence.
An argument that states —
1) God uses suffering
2) Therefore suffering caused by the state is part of God’s plan
3) And therefore killing people is redemptive
— is not Christian theology. It’s weaponized spiritual language used to justify every kind of human atrocity from slavery to genocide.
What I find so egregious here is that Christianity is being used to excuse violence.
Where is the "here" in the last sentence? "What I find so egregious here is..."
Last edited by Southerner on Sun Dec 14, 2025 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Dec 13, 2025 10:29 pm
That would seem about as just as blowing up drug running boats. And after all - think about all the people who will die from the effects of that oil.
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 3:11 pm
The general norm in Latin America is that whenever the current party in power changes, they press charges against the last group that was in power and try to put them in prison (or worse). There are some who seem to think we should do that in America, too.
How does this pertain to the thread on "Venezuela 2025"?
temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 11:14 am
It’s the role of eartthly governments to protect and defend their legal law-abiding citizens and their borders.
Without, no earthly nations.
It’s the role of Christians to share Truth, to convert hearts+minds, which Christians do, no matter their geography or under which gov system. It’s no small thing to recognize, adversity seems to inspire depth of faithfulness.
Studying Hosea and Gomer hit home. God allows suffering for His purpose, to bring each of us close to Him.
He knows how ridiculous we can be, how stubborn, how wrong. Who ever was tested harder than Hosea? Who ever sinned worse than Gomer? Hosea was faithful; in God’s time, Gomer was won. God prevailed.
Gomer came to love God without bounds. That’s conversion! Then God restored Gomer to Hosea. The unthinkable. Amazing.
Hosea is about God’s faithfulness, not the morality of human violence.
An argument that states —
1) God uses suffering
2) Therefore suffering caused by the state is part of God’s plan
3) And therefore killing people is redemptive
— is not Christian theology. It’s weaponized spiritual language used to justify every kind of human atrocity from slavery to genocide.
What I find so egregious here is that Christianity is being used to excuse violence.
Where is the "here" in the last sentence? "What I find so egregious here is..."
Here = the posts I quoted
0 x
"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless."
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 3:11 pm
The general norm in Latin America is that whenever the current party in power changes, they press charges against the last group that was in power and try to put them in prison (or worse). There are some who seem to think we should do that in America, too.
How does this pertain to the thread on "Venezuela 2025"?
Venezuela is in Latin America, and follows the same pattern of elected officials being put in prison (either before or after holding office), and obviously one reason Maduro won't step down is because he'd face the same fate.
It takes a certain degree of maturity, but it's best to not try to incarcerate your political opponents.
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 3:11 pm
The general norm in Latin America is that whenever the current party in power changes, they press charges against the last group that was in power and try to put them in prison (or worse). There are some who seem to think we should do that in America, too.
How does this pertain to the thread on "Venezuela 2025"?
Venezuela is in Latin America, and follows the same pattern of elected officials being put in prison (either before or after holding office), and obviously one reason Maduro won't step down is because he'd face the same fate.
It takes a certain degree of maturity, but it's best to not try to incarcerate your political opponents.
Maturity and integrity would be not breaking the law and engaging in corruption in the first place. There's a good chance nobody would be wanting to put Maduro in prison if he was an honest and upright man.
