Venezuela 2025

[Soloist]

i don’t recall anyone on forum or in public decrying the assassination of osama bin laden.
there have been many others, esp drone strikes in the Middle East.

i didn’t celebrate it under any president, nor the present. death is sobering in each and every case.
i do not find any administration specially heinous, every president is CIC.

is this different? because media circus deems it so? to continue its 10 year partisan domestic (war)?

I don't know if I did on this forum, it might have been before but I objected to it. The details are vague and I can't verify what I knew at the time... but I am not a fan of an assassination regardless of who.

[temporal1]

i don’t recall anyone on forum or in public decrying the assassination of osama bin laden.
there have been many others, esp drone strikes in the Middle East.

i didn’t celebrate it under any president, nor the present. death is sobering in each and every case.
i do not find any administration specially heinous, every president is CIC.

is this different? because media circus deems it so? to continue its 10 year partisan domestic (war)?

I don't know if I did on this forum, it might have been before but I objected to it. The details are vague and I can't verify what I knew at the time... but I am not a fan of an assassination regardless of who.

thanks. i believe you. i cannot celebrate anyone’s death. true before i was baptized or understood scriptures.

[Valerie]

i don’t recall anyone on forum or in public decrying the assassination of osama bin laden.
there have been many others, esp drone strikes in the Middle East.

i didn’t celebrate it under any president, nor the present. death is sobering in each and every case.
i do not find any administration specially heinous, every president is CIC.

is this different? because media circus deems it so? to continue its 10 year partisan domestic (war)?

I don't know if I did on this forum, it might have been before but I objected to it. The details are vague and I can't verify what I knew at the time... but I am not a fan of an assassination regardless of who.

thanks. i believe you. i cannot celebrate anyone’s death. true before i was baptized or understood scriptures.

If one is on a “suicide mission” so to speak, it is grievous that they were on a mission that would destroy many more lives than that were lost- and if it ends up they STOP the endless journeys of destroying lives & souls by illegal drugs to line the pockets of evil men it’s very grievous but perhaps necessary. I’ve listened to the many press conferences about it & it’s certain those making decisions have access to intelligence that we “here” never will.

I hope those that claim the deep faith they have (example Trumps press secretary) would know better than to lie. We may not agree with what’s happening but we do have to at least acknowledge the intent is to “save lives”.

However stopping the abundance of lethal drugs will not get to the “root” of what causes people to turn to drugs to begin with. Still- the problem in our country is enormous.

[temporal1]

I don't know if I did on this forum, it might have been before but I objected to it. The details are vague and I can't verify what I knew at the time... but I am not a fan of an assassination regardless of who.

thanks. i believe you. i cannot celebrate anyone’s death. true before i was baptized or understood scriptures.

If one is on a “suicide mission” so to speak, it is grievous that they were on a mission that would destroy many more lives than that were lost- and if it ends up they STOP the endless journeys of destroying lives & souls by illegal drugs to line the pockets of evil men it’s very grievous but perhaps necessary. I’ve listened to the many press conferences about it & it’s certain those making decisions have access to intelligence that we “here” never will.

I hope those that claim the deep faith they have (example Trumps press secretary) would know better than to lie. We may not agree with what’s happening but we do have to at least acknowledge the intent is to “save lives”.

However stopping the abundance of lethal drugs will not get to the “root” of what causes people to turn to drugs to begin with. Still- the problem in our country is enormous.

It’s the role of eartthly governments to protect and defend their legal law-abiding citizens and their borders.
Without, no earthly nations.

It’s the role of Christians to share Truth, to convert hearts+minds, which Christians do, no matter their geography or under which gov system. It’s no small thing to recognize, adversity seems to inspire depth of faithfulness.

Studying Hosea and Gomer hit home. God allows suffering for His purpose, to bring each of us close to Him.
He knows how ridiculous we can be, how stubborn, how wrong. Who ever was tested harder than Hosea? Who ever sinned worse than Gomer? Hosea was faithful; in God’s time, Gomer was won. God prevailed.

Gomer came to love God without bounds. That’s conversion! Then God restored Gomer to Hosea. The unthinkable. Amazing.

[Szdfan]

Cartels, drug traffickers, mobs, gangs, etc., are not countries.
Using the word, “war” (as in war against poverty, and such others) doesn’t make poverty a country.

The word shouldn’t have been used that (casual) way. imho

So if “war” is not the right word, maybe “murder” is.

We can quibble about what we call this - war? counterterrorism? AUMF? whatever ... Is there some label that makes it OK to kill people like this?

If these are not wars between countries, there’s no declared war, no clear armed conflict, no battlefield, and no due process, is there some magical label that removes all moral guilt?

Is this kind of killing acceptable? Let's stop "wrangling over words".

I think words do matter because some participants here are attempting to create an epistemological fog which makes it impossible to criticize the government because nothing means anything. It’s a version of Bill Clinton’s “depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.” It’s weaponized nuance intended to obfuscate, not understand more deeply the complexity of the world. So yes, in this case, words matter.

[Szdfan]

So if “war” is not the right word, maybe “murder” is.

We can quibble about what we call this - war? counterterrorism? AUMF? whatever ... Is there some label that makes it OK to kill people like this?

If these are not wars between countries, there’s no declared war, no clear armed conflict, no battlefield, and no due process, is there some magical label that removes all moral guilt?

Is this kind of killing acceptable? Let's stop "wrangling over words".

I think words do matter because some participants here are attempting to create an epistemological fog which makes it impossible to criticize the government because nothing means anything. It’s a version of Bill Clinton’s “depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.” It’s weaponized nuance intended to obfuscate, not understand more deeply the complexity of the world. So yes, in this case, words matter.

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

[Szdfan]

thanks. i believe you. i cannot celebrate anyone’s death. true before i was baptized or understood scriptures.

If one is on a “suicide mission” so to speak, it is grievous that they were on a mission that would destroy many more lives than that were lost- and if it ends up they STOP the endless journeys of destroying lives & souls by illegal drugs to line the pockets of evil men it’s very grievous but perhaps necessary. I’ve listened to the many press conferences about it & it’s certain those making decisions have access to intelligence that we “here” never will.

I hope those that claim the deep faith they have (example Trumps press secretary) would know better than to lie. We may not agree with what’s happening but we do have to at least acknowledge the intent is to “save lives”.

However stopping the abundance of lethal drugs will not get to the “root” of what causes people to turn to drugs to begin with. Still- the problem in our country is enormous.

It’s the role of eartthly governments to protect and defend their legal law-abiding citizens and their borders.
Without, no earthly nations.

It’s the role of Christians to share Truth, to convert hearts+minds, which Christians do, no matter their geography or under which gov system. It’s no small thing to recognize, adversity seems to inspire depth of faithfulness.

Studying Hosea and Gomer hit home. God allows suffering for His purpose, to bring each of us close to Him.
He knows how ridiculous we can be, how stubborn, how wrong. Who ever was tested harder than Hosea? Who ever sinned worse than Gomer? Hosea was faithful; in God’s time, Gomer was won. God prevailed.

Gomer came to love God without bounds. That’s conversion! Then God restored Gomer to Hosea. The unthinkable. Amazing.

Hosea is about God’s faithfulness, not the morality of human violence.

An argument that states —

1) God uses suffering
2) Therefore suffering caused by the state is part of God’s plan
3) And therefore killing people is redemptive

— is not Christian theology. It’s weaponized spiritual language used to justify every kind of human atrocity from slavery to genocide.

What I find so egregious here is that Christianity is being used to excuse violence. Christianity has long argued that while God may bring redemption from suffering, humans are still responsible and accountable for the suffering they cause.

[JohnH]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

The voters have elected a Congress and Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump) to do exactly that.

If you want to change that, you’ll have to do something to end democracy, and instead of some kind of absolute monarch who lives up to whatever your moral expectations are. Overall, people seem to really want a powerful government that goes and kills terrorists, drug dealers and so on and don’t want to hear about due process or “rights” for them.

[temporal1]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

IF/THEN .. i don’t see it this way.
in the U.S. the state has rules, and courts, in addition to world courts, courts take time. not every random guy on the internet gets to decide what’s what. states do not always act morally or legally. courts do not always get rulings right. neither do you.

Hosea is about God’s faithfulness, not the morality of human violence.

An argument that states —

1) God uses suffering
2) Therefore suffering caused by the state is part of God’s plan
3) And therefore killing people is redemptive

— is not Christian theology. It’s weaponized spiritual language used to justify every kind of human atrocity from slavery to genocide.

What I find so egregious here is that Christianity is being used to excuse violence. Christianity has long argued that while God may bring redemption from suffering, humans are still responsible and accountable for the suffering they cause.

baloney.
there’s so much off here, i don’t have time. briefly, i don’t accept your if/thens.
nothing i wrote was any attempt at all to justify anything. i don’t appreciate your dogmatic sloppy judgments.

[Szdfan]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

The voters have elected a Congress and Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump) to do exactly that.

If you want to change that, you’ll have to do something to end democracy, and instead of some kind of absolute monarch who lives up to whatever your moral expectations are. Overall, people seem to really want a powerful government that goes and kills terrorists, drug dealers and so on and don’t want to hear about due process or “rights” for them.

Democracies have laws, guardrails and built-in accountability that don’t get swept away by whoever won the election.

It’s autocracies and dictatorships that kill whoever they want with impunity.