Mary’s Maturity

[barnhart]

They also hold to her mother’s name as Anne. This may seem like a minor point, but why should not someone have recorded things about Mary given her position as Jesus’ mother.

I think that is a question worth considering. Why didn't the early church write about her, bow down in prayer to her and talk about her immaculate conception while she was alive.

Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it

I asked the same question. When I was going through this questioning everything, I was learning by the eastern orthodox Christians. The answer I received was that Jesus was using that opportunity to make a point that they needed to consider, not to downplay who his mother was.

I didn't ask the question what point was Jesus trying to make.

[Valerie]

I think that is a question worth considering. Why didn't the early church write about her, bow down in prayer to her and talk about her immaculate conception while she was alive.

Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it

I asked the same question. When I was going through this questioning everything, I was learning by the eastern orthodox Christians. The answer I received was that Jesus was using that opportunity to make a point that they needed to consider, not to downplay who his mother was.

I didn't ask the question what point was Jesus trying to make.

The scripture you used to support your question is because reading that passage you are if I understand right attempting to say she is not worthy of being honored in the way she is. That’s why I brought up the answer to that is Jesus was using the opportunity to make his own point to the listeners, not to demean his mother, the way that protestants tend to.

[ken_sylvania]

You’re assuming they were too young to be on their own.
I’m not assuming anything except instead of Jesus asking a sibling to take vcarr do His mother, Ge asked Apostle John.

Oh baloney. Do you really think we're that stupid?

.... he entrusted his mother to the apostle John, who was not one of the siblings. It would not have been customary for him to do that when there were other younger children of her own that could’ve taken Mary under their shelter, but the apostle John took Mary with him to Ephesus and that’s where she lived out the rest of her life.

Not stupid, maybe not aware of the whole story.
None of us “were there”.

2 questions-
Why did Jesus say from the Cross (John 19:26-27):
“ when Jesus therefore saw his mother and that disciple whom he loved standing by, he said to his mother, woman, behold your son! Then he said to the disciple, behold your mother, and from that hour that disciple took her to his own home”
Why not take her to one of “her” other children instead of John’s home? (It’s history recorded not in Scripture than John took her to Ephesus eventually where she lived the rest of her life (if I remember that right).

Second question- where are the descendants of Mary? Wouldn’t there be descendants that would happily have proclaimed sharing the same blood as Jesus from Mary?
What say you. I guess any answer would be, as Ernie says, “supposition”

I cannot honestly say “I KNOW” either way. I just know that in every place the apostles started churches in the world. The belief was that Mary had no other children of her own.

So you are assuming quite a variety of things... I'm not sure why you claim you're not.

[ohio jones]

2 questions-
Why did Jesus say from the Cross (John 19:26-27):
“ when Jesus therefore saw his mother and that disciple whom he loved standing by, he said to his mother, woman, behold your son! Then he said to the disciple, behold your mother, and from that hour that disciple took her to his own home”
Why not take her to one of “her” other children instead of John’s home?

Were any of her other children there?

Second question- where are the descendants of Mary? Wouldn’t there be descendants that would happily have proclaimed sharing the same blood as Jesus from Mary?

As recorded by Eusebius [c.235-339]:

Chapter 19. Domitian commands the Descendants of David to be slain.
But when this same Domitian [emperor from 81-96] had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude...

Chapter 20. The Relatives of our Saviour.
1. Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is said to have been the Lord's brother according to the flesh....

6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.

7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.

8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses and were also relatives of the Lord. And peace being established, they lived until the time of Trajan [emperor from 98-117]. These things are related by Hegesippus [c.110-c.180].

Most people (better nights generally excepted) have difficulty tracing their genealogy back 200 years, let alone 2000. Perhaps those who did have that connection did not consider it "something to be used for [their] own advantage" (cf. Phil. 2:5-6 HCSB).

[ken_sylvania]

2 questions-
Why did Jesus say from the Cross (John 19:26-27):
“ when Jesus therefore saw his mother and that disciple whom he loved standing by, he said to his mother, woman, behold your son! Then he said to the disciple, behold your mother, and from that hour that disciple took her to his own home”
Why not take her to one of “her” other children instead of John’s home?

Were any of her other children there?

Second question- where are the descendants of Mary? Wouldn’t there be descendants that would happily have proclaimed sharing the same blood as Jesus from Mary?

As recorded by Eusebius [c.235-339]:

Chapter 19. Domitian commands the Descendants of David to be slain.
But when this same Domitian [emperor from 81-96] had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude...

Chapter 20. The Relatives of our Saviour.
1. Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is said to have been the Lord's brother according to the flesh....

6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.

7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.

8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses and were also relatives of the Lord. And peace being established, they lived until the time of Trajan [emperor from 98-117]. These things are related by Hegesippus [c.110-c.180].

Most people (better nights generally excepted) have difficulty tracing their genealogy back 200 years, let alone 2000. Perhaps those who did have that connection did not consider it "something to be used for [their] own advantage" (cf. Phil. 2:5-6 HCSB).

I don't see how Joseph's children with another woman other than Mary could be considered "the Lord's siblings according to the flesh."

[JohnH]

One of the more absurd Catholic (and Orthodox etc) teachings is the “perpetual virginity of Mary”, claiming that Joseph apparently lived in some kind of bizarre married yet celibate state, and that when the Bible says brothers of Jesus it doesn’t actually mean that.

[Valerie]

2 questions-
Why did Jesus say from the Cross (John 19:26-27):
“ when Jesus therefore saw his mother and that disciple whom he loved standing by, he said to his mother, woman, behold your son! Then he said to the disciple, behold your mother, and from that hour that disciple took her to his own home”
Why not take her to one of “her” other children instead of John’s home?

Were any of her other children there?

Second question- where are the descendants of Mary? Wouldn’t there be descendants that would happily have proclaimed sharing the same blood as Jesus from Mary?

As recorded by Eusebius [c.235-339]:

Chapter 19. Domitian commands the Descendants of David to be slain.
But when this same Domitian [emperor from 81-96] had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude...

Chapter 20. The Relatives of our Saviour.
1. Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is said to have been the Lord's brother according to the flesh....

6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.

7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.

8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses and were also relatives of the Lord. And peace being established, they lived until the time of Trajan [emperor from 98-117]. These things are related by Hegesippus [c.110-c.180].

Most people (better nights generally excepted) have difficulty tracing their genealogy back 200 years, let alone 2000. Perhaps those who did have that connection did not consider it "something to be used for [their] own advantage" (cf. Phil. 2:5-6 HCSB).

Why wouldn’t her other children have been with her at the Cross in probably the worse time in her life? By her side, and for their brother? Where were they? Even still Jesus entrusted her to Apostle John.

I have met TWO people who claim they are ancestors of people on the Mayflower.

I can only say, to be a descendant of Mary & blood relative of Jesus would seem a big enough deal to pass on to every generation afterwards.
Whatever happened to Joseph

[ken_sylvania]

2 questions-
Why did Jesus say from the Cross (John 19:26-27):
“ when Jesus therefore saw his mother and that disciple whom he loved standing by, he said to his mother, woman, behold your son! Then he said to the disciple, behold your mother, and from that hour that disciple took her to his own home”
Why not take her to one of “her” other children instead of John’s home?

Were any of her other children there?

Second question- where are the descendants of Mary? Wouldn’t there be descendants that would happily have proclaimed sharing the same blood as Jesus from Mary?

As recorded by Eusebius [c.235-339]:

Chapter 19. Domitian commands the Descendants of David to be slain.
But when this same Domitian [emperor from 81-96] had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude...

Chapter 20. The Relatives of our Saviour.
1. Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is said to have been the Lord's brother according to the flesh....

6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.

7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.

8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses and were also relatives of the Lord. And peace being established, they lived until the time of Trajan [emperor from 98-117]. These things are related by Hegesippus [c.110-c.180].

Most people (better nights generally excepted) have difficulty tracing their genealogy back 200 years, let alone 2000. Perhaps those who did have that connection did not consider it "something to be used for [their] own advantage" (cf. Phil. 2:5-6 HCSB).

Why wouldn’t her other children have been with her at the Cross in probably the worse time in her life? By her side, and for their brother? Where were they? Even still Jesus entrusted her to Apostle John.

I have met TWO people who claim they are ancestors of people on the Mayflower.

I can only say, to be a descendant of Mary & blood relative of Jesus would seem a big enough deal to pass on to every generation afterwards.
Whatever happened to Joseph

Right, we don't know where Joseph was on that day, do we? We don't know where Jesus' brothers and sisters were that day. Why weren't they there for their brother? We don't know that either. So considering all the things we don't know it seems weird to latch onto one possible explanation and cling to it despite having no direct evidence that it's the correct explanation.

Apparently, being a direct descendant of Adam wasn't important enough to pass on to every generation afterwards. Apparently being a direct descendant of Joseph wasn't important enough to pass on to every generation afterwards - or possibly the family line got wiped out at some point.

[ohio jones]

Why wouldn’t her other children have been with her at the Cross in probably the worse time in her life? By her side, and for their brother? Where were they? Even still Jesus entrusted her to Apostle John.

Where were the rest of the disciples? It was a small gathering. When Jesus wanted to make sure his mother was cared for, the options were very limited.

Were you there when they crucified my Lord?

[Valerie]

Why wouldn’t her other children have been with her at the Cross in probably the worse time in her life? By her side, and for their brother? Where were they? Even still Jesus entrusted her to Apostle John.

Where were the rest of the disciples? It was a small gathering. When Jesus wanted to make sure his mother was cared for, the options were very limited.

Were you there when they crucified my Lord?

I love that song.
I don’t know, but if MY mother was in that situation I would let nothing stop me from being with her during her suffering.
Then there’s the historical writing (somewhere) that John took her to Ephesus where she lived out the rest of her life.

None of us were there, it is a matter of who you believe. I can’t imagine why the ancient churched in both East & West lied. Surely they would not want to stand before God about that-
I believe there are others who believed she remained a virgin besides RC & EO.