Mary’s Maturity

[ken_sylvania]

They have a number of historical records, but most of what they mention is just supposition.

Catholics and EOs also "know" other things that aren't in scripture, or are even contradicted by scripture, such as the idea that Jesus had no siblings.

They believe that the siblings of Jesus were not born at Mary, but Joseph brought them into the marriage that he was a widower. So they would’ve been older than Jesus not younger. It is interesting that when Jesus was on the cross, he entrusted his mother to the apostle John, who was not one of the siblings. It would not have been customary for him to do that when there were other younger children of her own that could’ve taken Mary under their shelter, but the apostle John took Mary with him to Ephesus and that’s where she lived out the rest of her life.

Got to pity those poor orphan children left all alone in Nazareth while Joseph ran off to Egypt with their stepmother and her new baby boy. They probably hated her. No wonder it wasn't safe for Jesus to leave Mary to their care.

[temporal1]

.. and i believe God bestows design and gifts from conception, even before conception.

science keeps revealing more+more about the unborn, including how many traits are established at conception. these little creatures are marvels. science will never catch up with God. He’s ‘way ahead.

[JayP]

I am hardly an authority. Most of the “details” commonly associated with Mary come from apocryphal works, sick as the Gospel of James, from which we are told Mary’s parents were Joachim and Anne, as well as her betrothal was at a young age. I would clarify that the Orthodox view of Mary is not so much in contradiction with the Roman view as it is simply a different emphasis.

While the Orthodox focus on Mary as Theotokas they do not hold to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (which while one could argue existed in the RCC for over a thousand years was only DECLARED in the pas t few hundred). They do hold to the virgin birth of Jesus.

I th8nk it clearly for those that which to doubt, there is little pure scriptural support for aspects of Mary’s definitive Catholic characteristics ( i.e. young, parents names, etc.). On the other hand. One needs to realize scripture is clear that Mary did not go “poof” and was present in the lives of the early church, traditionally in John’s care. So to believe that the early church, especially in the traditions carried down by the Orthodox, are without values would be equally inaccurate.

Remember, there is no question the term Theotokos goes back to the 3rd century AT MINIMUM, and maybe older.
They also hold to her mother’s name as Anne. This may seem like a minor point, but why should not someone have recorded things about Mary given her position as Jesus’ mother.

Myself, I am not sure folks do not get over wrapped up on both sides.

[ken_sylvania]

I am hardly an authority. Most of the “details” commonly associated with Mary come from apocryphal works, sick as the Gospel of James, from which we are told Mary’s parents were Joachim and Anne, as well as her betrothal was at a young age. I would clarify that the Orthodox view of Mary is not so much in contradiction with the Roman view as it is simply a different emphasis.

While the Orthodox focus on Mary as Theotokas they do not hold to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (which while one could argue existed in the RCC for over a thousand years was only DECLARED in the pas t few hundred). They do hold to the virgin birth of Jesus.

I th8nk it clearly for those that which to doubt, there is little pure scriptural support for aspects of Mary’s definitive Catholic characteristics ( i.e. young, parents names, etc.). On the other hand. One needs to realize scripture is clear that Mary did not go “poof” and was present in the lives of the early church, traditionally in John’s care. So to believe that the early church, especially in the traditions carried down by the Orthodox, are without values would be equally inaccurate.

Remember, there is no question the term Theotokos goes back to the 3rd century AT MINIMUM, and maybe older.
They also hold to her mother’s name as Anne. This may seem like a minor point, but why should not someone have recorded things about Mary given her position as Jesus’ mother.

Myself, I am not sure folks do not get over wrapped up on both sides.

Probably the first time I ever heard the apocrypha referred to as being "sick as the Gospel of James."

[Soloist]

Remember, there is no question the term Theotokos goes back to the 3rd century AT MINIMUM, and maybe older.
They also hold to her mother’s name as Anne. This may seem like a minor point, but why should not someone have recorded things about Mary given her position as Jesus’ mother.

Myself, I am not sure folks do not get over wrapped up on both sides.

I hold no objection whatsoever to the term Theotokos. It literally is a correct term.
It’s what comes along with it that I object to.
That sort of stuff cannot be traced to the third century.

[Valerie]

Catholics and EOs also "know" other things that aren't in scripture, or are even contradicted by scripture, such as the idea that Jesus had no siblings.

They believe that the siblings of Jesus were not born at Mary, but Joseph brought them into the marriage that he was a widower. So they would’ve been older than Jesus not younger. It is interesting that when Jesus was on the cross, he entrusted his mother to the apostle John, who was not one of the siblings. It would not have been customary for him to do that when there were other younger children of her own that could’ve taken Mary under their shelter, but the apostle John took Mary with him to Ephesus and that’s where she lived out the rest of her life.

Got to pity those poor orphan children left all alone in Nazareth while Joseph ran off to Egypt with their stepmother and her new baby boy. They probably hated her. No wonder it wasn't safe for Jesus to leave Mary to their care.

You’re assuming they were too young to be on their own.
I’m not assuming anything except instead of Jesus asking a sibling to take vcarr do His mother, Ge asked Apostle John.

[ken_sylvania]

They believe that the siblings of Jesus were not born at Mary, but Joseph brought them into the marriage that he was a widower. So they would’ve been older than Jesus not younger. It is interesting that when Jesus was on the cross, he entrusted his mother to the apostle John, who was not one of the siblings. It would not have been customary for him to do that when there were other younger children of her own that could’ve taken Mary under their shelter, but the apostle John took Mary with him to Ephesus and that’s where she lived out the rest of her life.

Got to pity those poor orphan children left all alone in Nazareth while Joseph ran off to Egypt with their stepmother and her new baby boy. They probably hated her. No wonder it wasn't safe for Jesus to leave Mary to their care.

You’re assuming they were too young to be on their own.
I’m not assuming anything except instead of Jesus asking a sibling to take vcarr do His mother, Ge asked Apostle John.

Oh baloney. Do you really think we're that stupid?

.... he entrusted his mother to the apostle John, who was not one of the siblings. It would not have been customary for him to do that when there were other younger children of her own that could’ve taken Mary under their shelter, but the apostle John took Mary with him to Ephesus and that’s where she lived out the rest of her life.

[barnhart]

They also hold to her mother’s name as Anne. This may seem like a minor point, but why should not someone have recorded things about Mary given her position as Jesus’ mother.

I think that is a question worth considering. Why didn't the early church write about her, bow down in prayer to her and talk about her immaculate conception while she was alive.

Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it

[Valerie]

Got to pity those poor orphan children left all alone in Nazareth while Joseph ran off to Egypt with their stepmother and her new baby boy. They probably hated her. No wonder it wasn't safe for Jesus to leave Mary to their care.

You’re assuming they were too young to be on their own.
I’m not assuming anything except instead of Jesus asking a sibling to take vcarr do His mother, Ge asked Apostle John.

Oh baloney. Do you really think we're that stupid?

.... he entrusted his mother to the apostle John, who was not one of the siblings. It would not have been customary for him to do that when there were other younger children of her own that could’ve taken Mary under their shelter, but the apostle John took Mary with him to Ephesus and that’s where she lived out the rest of her life.

Not stupid, maybe not aware of the whole story.
None of us “were there”.

2 questions-
Why did Jesus say from the Cross (John 19:26-27):
“ when Jesus therefore saw his mother and that disciple whom he loved standing by, he said to his mother, woman, behold your son! Then he said to the disciple, behold your mother, and from that hour that disciple took her to his own home”
Why not take her to one of “her” other children instead of John’s home? (It’s history recorded not in Scripture than John took her to Ephesus eventually where she lived the rest of her life (if I remember that right).

Second question- where are the descendants of Mary? Wouldn’t there be descendants that would happily have proclaimed sharing the same blood as Jesus from Mary?
What say you. I guess any answer would be, as Ernie says, “supposition”

I cannot honestly say “I KNOW” either way. I just know that in every place the apostles started churches in the world. The belief was that Mary had no other children of her own.

[Valerie]

They also hold to her mother’s name as Anne. This may seem like a minor point, but why should not someone have recorded things about Mary given her position as Jesus’ mother.

I think that is a question worth considering. Why didn't the early church write about her, bow down in prayer to her and talk about her immaculate conception while she was alive.

Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it

I asked the same question. When I was going through this questioning everything, I was learning by the eastern orthodox Christians. The answer I received was that Jesus was using that opportunity to make a point that they needed to consider, not to downplay who his mother was.