Divorce, remarriage and your church

[Neto]

There is also a process called "legal separation" that breaks the financial connection or burden, while not opening the door for remarriage. (I have never researched this, so I do not know how it works. We were told about this possibility by a Mennonite pastor of a more 'liberal' group than our own, in order to pass on advice for a family member of mine whose wife was racking up bills that he was unable to keep ahead of. But because there were other factors involved - emotional abuse and abandonment of the children as well, for instance - he took the route of divorce.)

We live in a broken world, and sometimes a person who claimed to be a believer was not, and sometimes a believer turns his or her back on Christ and the Church, and in the course of time chooses to live in immorality. In those cases where there is persistent immorality and unrepentance the Mennonite tradition in which I was reared (MB) allows for divorce and remarriage. It is not a choice to be easily or quickly taken, but Jesus himself spoke of this recognition as the only condition for the breaking of the marriage bond. The 'requirements' for annulment are, in my understanding, different and more demanding. (My impression is that in general, it requires that the unfaithful spouse was NEVER faithful, before and into the marriage.)

[JohnH]

Divorce is a very sad thing but when necessary is approved by a congregation and the congregation’s leadership. An example is a husband repeatedly taking out debts in his wife’s name, leaving her impoverished and unable to repay them. Another example is having affairs.

Question. The husband who repeatedly took out debts in his wife’s name - did he also commit adultery besides the financial fraud? Or does financial fraud alone qualify for divorce in your church?

That would depend on if you engaging in homosexuality / transsexuality to be "adultery". His wife wanted to reconcile (and did several times), but when he would disappear for a few months, bills would start to show up in the mail. She also felt uncomfortable working to pay the bills to essentially support his lifestyle.

Interestingly, he did finally repent before the end of his life; shortly after he repented, cancer due to his sinful lifestyle came back with a vengeance. I consider this the Lord's mercy as he did not fall away again before he eventually died, so we can look forward to being reunited and reconciled with him in heaven some day.

[Ernie]

Divorce is a very sad thing but when necessary is approved by a congregation and the congregation’s leadership. An example is a husband repeatedly taking out debts in his wife’s name, leaving her impoverished and unable to repay them. Another example is having affairs.

Question. The husband who repeatedly took out debts in his wife’s name - did he also commit adultery besides the financial fraud? Or does financial fraud alone qualify for divorce in your church?

That would depend on if you engaging in homosexuality / transsexuality to be "adultery". His wife wanted to reconcile (and did several times), but when he would disappear for a few months, bills would start to show up in the mail. She also felt uncomfortable working to pay the bills to essentially support his lifestyle.

Interestingly, he did finally repent before the end of his life; shortly after he repented, cancer due to his sinful lifestyle came back with a vengeance. I consider this the Lord's mercy as he did not fall away again before he eventually died, so we can look forward to being reunited and reconciled with him in heaven some day.

Is the wife free to remarry in a situation like this?

[ohio jones]

I am speechless. I cannot conceive of a church taking any “action” over a legal divorce.
I see no indication anywhere in the Bible that a societal legal divorce offends God.

“I hate divorce,” says the Lord God of Israel, “and the one who is guilty of violence,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. (Mal. 2.16 NET)

So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate. (Matt. 19:6 NET)

[barnhart]

Johnl, here is a position paper from our alliance you might find informative.

https://biblicalmennonite.com/beliefs/d ... emarriage/

[JohnL]

Johnl, here is a position paper from our alliance you might find informative.

https://biblicalmennonite.com/beliefs/d ... emarriage/

Thank you.

[R7ehr]

Divorce is a very sad thing but when necessary is approved by a congregation and the congregation’s leadership. An example is a husband repeatedly taking out debts in his wife’s name, leaving her impoverished and unable to repay them. Another example is having affairs.

Question. The husband who repeatedly took out debts in his wife’s name - did he also commit adultery besides the financial fraud? Or does financial fraud alone qualify for divorce in your church?

That would depend on if you engaging in homosexuality / transsexuality to be "adultery". His wife wanted to reconcile (and did several times), but when he would disappear for a few months, bills would start to show up in the mail. She also felt uncomfortable working to pay the bills to essentially support his lifestyle.

Interestingly, he did finally repent before the end of his life; shortly after he repented, cancer due to his sinful lifestyle came back with a vengeance. I consider this the Lord's mercy as he did not fall away again before he eventually died, so we can look forward to being reunited and reconciled with him in heaven some day.

It sounds a little like the financial fraud was the main reason for the divorce. What about my second question there?
Question:
1. Would the church resist the divorce any differently if there was not the homosexual/transsexual actions, would the church allow this divorce based only on the financial fraud?
2. I assume the church would/did allow her to remarry. And if the church allows for divorce for financial fraud only, does it allow for remarriage for financial fraud as well?

[Ken]

I am speechless. I cannot conceive of a church taking any “action” over a legal divorce.
I see no indication anywhere in the Bible that a societal legal divorce offends God.
I see remarriage as offending God.

Tell us, what is the process for getting a divorce within the Roman Catholic Church?

[JohnH]

It sounds a little like the financial fraud was the main reason for the divorce. What about my second question there?

Like most Mennonites, she wanted to reconcile, and it was tolerable to be married to someone who would disappear for months at a time. What wasn't tolerable was to be unable to pay her bills / earn a living.

She would have had the choice to ask for a divorce because of the homosexual affairs / cheating but she chose not to do that.

Question:
1. Would the church resist the divorce any differently if there was not the homosexual/transsexual actions, would the church allow this divorce based only on the financial fraud?

Probably not.

2. I assume the church would/did allow her to remarry.

We won't ever know, since he died. She married someone else several years after he died.

And if the church allows for divorce for financial fraud only, does it allow for remarriage for financial fraud as well?

No. Divorce and remarriage are viewed as different things. A legal divorce is only tolerated when either (a) we feel the marital bond has been broken, or (b) there is some intolerable situation that requires obtaining a legal divorce. Basically this would be for situations like I described above; the other is situations where there is physical abuse, particularly of the children, so it is needed to block the abuser from physical access to the abused spouse / children. But that wouldn't necessarily mean either party can just run off and get remarried because they feel like it.

The question is if Jesus' exception for remarriage applies, "except for immorality" (also translated as "fornication"). We would not think financial sins apply in that case.

2. I assume the church would/did allow her to remarry.

Going back tot his, I think it's interesting that conservative Mennonites immediately jump to this assumption when they hear about the situation. Here we have a man who repeatedly engaged in homosexual / transsexual activity, and also other immorality that ultimately led to him dying of incurable cancer. I mention that the church allowed her to get a divorce (actually, her dad took the initiative, not her), and people immediately say "Oh, that's so she can get remarried."

I had a conversation once about this situation and someone asked "do you think she should get remarried." I said, "Yes, in case you forgot, her husband died." It is disheartening how little people want to focus on the joyful fact he did repent and died shortly later, and also disheartening how much they want to obsess over "remarriage". I wish such people would focus a little more on a bride who gets married and finds herself with a husband who wants her to watch pornography, engages in homosexual and transsexual activity, and then abandons her while running up big debts in her name.

[JohnH]

There is also a process called "legal separation" that breaks the financial connection or burden, while not opening the door for remarriage. (I have never researched this, so I do not know how it works.

In the situation I described that's that the wife tried to do (well, her dad pretty much took all the intiative and did the research for it). They were unable to find a lawyer willing to file a legal separation at all. Apparently in California they basically never happen.

In the end, the judge heard the situation and decided to grant an annulment. The judge rejected the divorce paperwork and declared the marriage annulled, and refunded the divorce filing fee.

We were told about this possibility by a Mennonite pastor of a more 'liberal' group than our own, in order to pass on advice for a family member of mine whose wife was racking up bills that he was unable to keep ahead of. But because there were other factors involved - emotional abuse and abandonment of the children as well, for instance - he took the route of divorce.)

Unfortunately, in a situation like that it is basically required to use legal counsel, and legal counsel will want the best possible outcome for their client. I was aware of an Amish lady who attempted to file for a legal separation, too (in Ohio) but the lawyer said divorce was required. The situation there involved physical abuse including of the children. The Amish church ended up allowing her to do so as well because the situation was so intolerable. (Interestingly, the man involved ended up finding some conservative Mennonites whom he tells "the Amish church took my children from me".)

We live in a broken world, and sometimes a person who claimed to be a believer was not, and sometimes a believer turns his or her back on Christ and the Church, and in the course of time chooses to live in immorality. In those cases where there is persistent immorality and unrepentance the Mennonite tradition in which I was reared (MB) allows for divorce and remarriage. It is not a choice to be easily or quickly taken, but Jesus himself spoke of this recognition as the only condition for the breaking of the marriage bond. The 'requirements' for annulment are, in my understanding, different and more demanding. (My impression is that in general, it requires that the unfaithful spouse was NEVER faithful, before and into the marriage.)

I think annulments sometimes do need to happen. An example is a man who decides he needs to watch pornography starting on their wedding night with his new wife. i don't see why this should ever be tolerated.