Charlie Kirk Shot

[barnhart]

I think it is possible that people will be genuinely converted as a result of Erika's testimony, while others will be converted into something the very opposite of the Gospel. I don't think we as observers need to choose one perspective or the other. I think both can result from situations like this.

Well said, God able to raise up children of Abraham (the truly faithful) out of stones (unlikely or unusual sources) as Jesus said.

[Valerie]

For some reason, the thief on the cross and the parable of the Pharisee and tax collector comes to mind.
Again so does the parable of the sower. Jesus made it clear when sowing seeds, 3 of the 4 scenarios He taught, the seeds did not take root. One sows one waters, God brings the increase. Evangelicals interpret some passages differently than Anabaptists that’s true- in fact during the Reformation we see that’s why Baptists didn’t agree 100% from the beginning -

[Robert]

I thought the Memorial was really well done and very moving until Trump spoke. It became a political rally at that point. I think they should have closed it after Erika spoke. I was totally surprised that Trump spoke after her. I was disappointed in his presentation. Her speech will be remembered for years, his will be just another political speech lost to time.

[mike]

I thought the Memorial was really well done and very moving until Trump spoke. It became a political rally at that point. I think they should have closed it after Erika spoke. I was totally surprised that Trump spoke after her. I was disappointed in his presentation. Her speech will be remembered for years, his will be just another political speech lost to time.

As Ben Shapiro said yesterday, it is impossible to ignore how much of a political figure Charlie was, in addition to being a conservative Christian voice, and that it was thus fitting to have the politics mixed in with the faith aspects at his funeral.

[temporal1]

I thought the Memorial was really well done and very moving until Trump spoke. It became a political rally at that point. I think they should have closed it after Erika spoke. I was totally surprised that Trump spoke after her. I was disappointed in his presentation. Her speech will be remembered for years, his will be just another political speech lost to time.

As Ben Shapiro said yesterday, it is impossible to ignore how much of a political figure Charlie was, in addition to being a conservative Christian voice, and that it was thus fitting to have the politics mixed in with the faith aspects at his funeral.

i appreciate Ben S in general, i’ve ignored him on this, he’s quite political and won’t let that part go, at all.

i didn’t follow the Memorial because i anticipated it would be politicized. i listened to Erika as a stand alone.

Evidently, Trump knew and was friends with CK, IN ADDITION TO being targeted for the exact type of assassination just a year ago, i’ve had enough shock+trauma in my real life to know - NOT MUCH IS INSTANT OR COMPLETE. It doesn’t matter if Trump’s words were good or long lasting. Not to me. To me, Trump is just a man, mortal, fallible. Not super human. Vulnerable.

Many refuse to listen to his SOTUs, or respect them.

i’m encouraged by whatever was encouraging and Christian in CK’s life and death.
i’m unwilling to believe evil wins.

Whenever Jesus’ Truth is the message, THAT message, HIS message will prevail. The rest will fall away.
Even when it LOOKS “forever”. That’s the delusion.
1 Cor 15:57
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-57.htm

[Judas Maccabeus]

The parts of the Memorial service I saw reminded me a bit of some of the United Kingdom state events I have seen over the years (coronation, royal weddings, state funerals)...and it brought out many of the same emotions I have related to the uncomfortable mix of the spiritual power of the Gospel with the coercive power of the state. There were parts of the service that were lovely and quite moving, culminating with Erica's expressed forgiveness and clear articulation of faith in Jesus. Much of the worship was quite sincere as well - heart-felt I'm sure. But, unfortunately, some other parts of the service were more profane, including Steven Miller's evocation of a political holy war against "them," and President Trump's declaration of hate for his enemies.

As an Anabaptist, it reminds me once again of the unholy alliance of faith and politics. I fear the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk is pulling unwary Christians further into Trump/Miller's political war rather than toward the love-grounded and nonrestiant gospel of Christ - and that does not advance the Kingdom.

In other words, a “conversion “ without ever knowing the Christ of the Bible.

I’m glad y’all fired God as being the judge of souls and conversions, He probably appreciates He can step down from that job since most Anabaptists are exceptional in standing in judgement of people they never met. Hah.

To the Anabaptists shame most of the world has no idea of their faith because they seem to care more about staying in their safe inner circles & families than getting out there to reach the list like Charlie. I have heard more talk of forgiveness and not returning hate based on Jesus’ words from those that some at his memorial so I would not be quick to assume conversions may not look like the Anabaptist sects of splits galore, but they just may have passed from darkness to Light.

but belief in a false christ, who seeks revenge, who hates his enemies, who does not forgive, will never lead to salvation.

Both the true Christ and the false were on display. With this fusion that this represents, it is hard to separate the two.

[mike]

but belief in a false christ, who seeks revenge, who hates his enemies, who does not forgive, will never lead to salvation.

Both the true Christ and the false were on display. With this fusion that this represents, it is hard to separate the two.

Yes, it really is.

[Jazman]

In other words, a “conversion “ without ever knowing the Christ of the Bible.

I’m glad y’all fired God as being the judge of souls and conversions, He probably appreciates He can step down from that job since most Anabaptists are exceptional in standing in judgement of people they never met. Hah.

To the Anabaptists shame most of the world has no idea of their faith because they seem to care more about staying in their safe inner circles & families than getting out there to reach the list like Charlie. I have heard more talk of forgiveness and not returning hate based on Jesus’ words from those that some at his memorial so I would not be quick to assume conversions may not look like the Anabaptist sects of splits galore, but they just may have passed from darkness to Light.

but belief in a false christ, who seeks revenge, who hates his enemies, who does not forgive, will never lead to salvation.

Both the true Christ and the false were on display. With this fusion that this represents, it is hard to separate the two.

And that is why I must reject the movement, entirely. It is syncretism... Is seems hot and cold... It seems to be trying to serve God and man/mammon/power. A lot of that is unintentional - there may be mercy there, but that doesn't mean God's favor is on it. The Bible, especially NT suggests it might be worse than pure unbelief...

[Jazman]

I am finding so many like this in my feed on X. I am not going to post any more unless something really hits me, but it is really something how all this is progressing.

Fireworks? At a funeral? Weird... but I guess it fits the mega-churchy, staged-performance, how-low-can-we-go church spectacle that is the primary discipling atmosphere for this heterdox form of christianity... (the majority of maga hardlines in my life go to these types of churches... seems to be a hand and glove kind of fit)

What a strange mix; the things that sounded like Jesus may have a good effect, but I think it (and comments here) reveal the tenuous coalition that is maga... Can it hold together if the parts within either pull towards Jesus or towards Trump/Miller?

[Jazman]

And unbeliever describes what he saw in the funeral...
"Funerals should comfort the anguished. A political movement whose cardinal rule is that conciliation is for the weak could not rise to that occasion, I believed, and I was right.

Stephen Miller sounded like Stephen Miller. Tucker Carlson told the audience that Jesus was killed by “a bunch of guys eating hummus,” a pungent spin on blame for the crucifixion given his focus lately on Charlie Kirk’s views of Israel. Then the president came onstage and—well, we’ll come back to that.

The funeral was what I thought it would be. Until Erika Kirk spoke, and then it was something else.

“My husband Charlie, he wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life,” she told the mourners. “On the cross, our savior said, ‘Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.’ That young man, I forgive him.”

The last place you would look for grace in American public life in 2025 is at a Republican political rally, especially one where the usual lust for ruthlessness has been juiced by wrath and grief. For Mrs. Kirk to muster it in this setting, at this moment, despite the singular anguish with which she’s been burdened, felt almost miraculous even to a non-believer like me.

“The answer to hate is not hate,” she went on. “The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love, love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.”

Erika Kirk set a stellar moral example yesterday despite immense emotional and political temptation to be vindictive. All but uniquely for a MAGA Republican, her country is better today for her public influence.

Then the president spoke.
“He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them,” Donald Trump said of Charlie Kirk, seemingly praising the dead. Then he veered off-script: “That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponents, and I don’t want the best for them. I’m sorry. I am sorry, Erika.
He joked that maybe she could convince him that hating one’s enemies isn’t right, which turned her moving statement of Christian witness into a set-up for a punch line. The crowd laughed. When it was over, Mrs. Kirk embraced him.

I’ve heard of political “big tents,” but I’ve never heard of one big enough to accommodate two moral systems that aren’t just contradictory but irreconcilable. “Christ’s message, followed by its very antithesis,” philosophy professor Edward Feser wrote of the contrast between Kirk’s and Trump’s remarks. “It’s almost as if the audience is being put to a test.” - Nick Catoggio

Now that is a strange religion... I can't think of any other that tries so hard to mix two disparate things together... This would be like Jews and Muslims sharing a Passover meal together that included a pork and chicken casserole... like Buddhist monks meditating on the stage of a Metallica concert... a Roman priestess in the temple of Zeus reading one of Paul's epistles to the gathering...
Maybe all of this can pull the veil from some eyes and reveal what's really going on...