Charlie Kirk Shot

[Robert]

I listened to Erika Kirk’s full speech at the memorial, and I want to share a few thoughts that came to me while live streaming the event. This is not political.

First, I should say that I grew up as a Muslim in a Muslim country. I don’t know enough about Christianity to say if what I witnessed is rooted in faith or culture. But what struck me most was how, even though death is heavy and this was by nature a sad occasion, the entire event carried a celebratory spirit that honored life.

That contrast hit me deeply. In Islam, even though we believe that good people go to heaven, the relationship with God is taught through fear. Funerals are overwhelmingly sad, often filled with warnings of the terrifying first night in the grave. Growing up hearing that, and then witnessing people celebrate life, speak of God’s love, and remember someone through the impact he had on others; it felt so refreshing, so positive.

Second, I was profoundly moved by @MrsErikaKirk ’s words. I cannot fathom the strength it takes to stand and deliver such a meaningful speech after losing the love of your life. But even more than that, the grace it takes to forgive the very person who destroyed your world. I cannot imagine myself standing on a stage, sending love to those who cheered your husband’s murder, or inviting others to spread God’s love in response because, as she said, “we do not respond to hate with hate.” That is powerful beyond words.

Again, I am ignorant when it comes to Christianity, but if this is what it truly embodies, then I am envious of those who get to experience that feeling.

[Robert]

I remain Jesus-Curious, but I want to be real for a minute and say some things:

- I was shocked by the music before it began, it was so beautiful. I didn't know that people looked like that when they sang along; like so connected to something. I cried a lot during the music and don't know why.

- I knew that Charlie was a Christian, but I didn't know that he did all of this for Jesus. I knew he loved Jesus, but I thought more about his drive for social change and real leaders. I didn't know he like literally did it all for Jesus.

- If @bennyjohnson was a pastor, I would go to that church every week.

- I realize a big thing I am afraid of with it is having to change. I would have to change. What Erika said about the answer is love and always love... I'd have to change.

I don't know. But I do know that I came to X to complain about the USDA and now I'm writing my feelings about Jesus on the internet. I have met so many amazing people here who believe in Jesus and I never expected that.

[Robert]

I am finding so many like this in my feed on X. I am not going to post any more unless something really hits me, but it is really something how all this is progressing.

[temporal1]

Truth touching souls, blessings of the Spirit.

Isaiah 55:11
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/55-11.htm

10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat,

11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it.

12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

[JohnH]

But, unfortunately, some other parts of the service were more profane, including Steven Miller's evocation of a political holy war against "them,"

Stephen Miller has not claimed to be Christian; he is Jewish and has never publicly announced a change in religious views to anything else. However, I did not find his screed to be "profane". He basically took a stance against evil (which I would consider assassinations and political violence to be). I don't see what's wrong with calling that out as evil.

and President Trump's declaration of hate for his enemies.

I appreciated that Trump didn't pretend to be a Christian, or to embrace Christian principles including forgiveness and nonviolence like Tucker Carlson did. (Tucker Carlson has surprised me with his rather frequent discussions of the Sermon on the Mount and biblical nonviolence where he has even questioned if Christians should engage in violence for self defense.) Instead, he said he doesn't like his enemies and doesn't want to love them - but that Charlie Kirk wanted him to do so. I think it's good for him to be honest about that (exactly how many politicians truly "love their enemies?"), and in particularly the contrast highlighted with how sincere Charlie Kirk was about living out this part of the Sermon the Mount.

As an Anabaptist, it reminds me once again of the unholy alliance of faith and politics. I fear the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk is pulling unwary Christians further into Trump/Miller's political war rather than toward the love-grounded and nonrestiant gospel of Christ - and that does not advance the Kingdom.

This wasn't an "unholy alliance of faith and politics". This was a memorial service for a man who was assassinated, with his closest friends attending and speaking.

Dan, I don't know how to tell you this, but barely any Christians at all in America believe in a true plain Anabaptist view of the proper relationship of the Christian to the military, the state, voting, and so forth. Christians are not "unwary" or being "pulled into a political war"; nearly all Christians worldwide, including America, think it's perfectly fine to be fully politically engaged.

If you don't like this, then I suggest being part of a thriving plain Anabaptist church, inviting people to attend there with you, and sharing Christ's gospel of peace to attenders who are on a path to membership. This isn't easy or fast. There is a very dear couple attending church whom I now count as friends. They have a long, deep history of military service going back many generations. (It would appear he and I have distant ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War together, although we are still researching that.) Embracing biblical non-resistance and becoming a member of a Mennonite church is not an easy or quick decision for them, but it will be a very meaningful one.

The right place to start is not complaining about a memorial service for a man who, frankly, proclaimed Jesus' message of peace as well, where worship songs were song, the gospel was preached, an altar call was made, and messages of forgiveness to an assassin delivered. To be frank, I can't really think of anything that would turn off a potential seeker more than that.

[Robert]

[Judas Maccabeus]

The parts of the Memorial service I saw reminded me a bit of some of the United Kingdom state events I have seen over the years (coronation, royal weddings, state funerals)...and it brought out many of the same emotions I have related to the uncomfortable mix of the spiritual power of the Gospel with the coercive power of the state. There were parts of the service that were lovely and quite moving, culminating with Erica's expressed forgiveness and clear articulation of faith in Jesus. Much of the worship was quite sincere as well - heart-felt I'm sure. But, unfortunately, some other parts of the service were more profane, including Steven Miller's evocation of a political holy war against "them," and President Trump's declaration of hate for his enemies.

As an Anabaptist, it reminds me once again of the unholy alliance of faith and politics. I fear the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk is pulling unwary Christians further into Trump/Miller's political war rather than toward the love-grounded and nonrestiant gospel of Christ - and that does not advance the Kingdom.

In other words, a “conversion “ without ever knowing the Christ of the Bible.

[Valerie]

The parts of the Memorial service I saw reminded me a bit of some of the United Kingdom state events I have seen over the years (coronation, royal weddings, state funerals)...and it brought out many of the same emotions I have related to the uncomfortable mix of the spiritual power of the Gospel with the coercive power of the state. There were parts of the service that were lovely and quite moving, culminating with Erica's expressed forgiveness and clear articulation of faith in Jesus. Much of the worship was quite sincere as well - heart-felt I'm sure. But, unfortunately, some other parts of the service were more profane, including Steven Miller's evocation of a political holy war against "them," and President Trump's declaration of hate for his enemies.

As an Anabaptist, it reminds me once again of the unholy alliance of faith and politics. I fear the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk is pulling unwary Christians further into Trump/Miller's political war rather than toward the love-grounded and nonrestiant gospel of Christ - and that does not advance the Kingdom.

In other words, a “conversion “ without ever knowing the Christ of the Bible.

I’m glad y’all fired God as being the judge of souls and conversions, He probably appreciates He can step down from that job since most Anabaptists are exceptional in standing in judgement of people they never met. Hah.

To the Anabaptists shame most of the world has no idea of their faith because they seem to care more about staying in their safe inner circles & families than getting out there to reach the list like Charlie. I have heard more talk of forgiveness and not returning hate based on Jesus’ words from those that some at his memorial so I would not be quick to assume conversions may not look like the Anabaptist sects of splits galore, but they just may have passed from darkness to Light.

[Ernie]

The parts of the Memorial service I saw reminded me a bit of some of the United Kingdom state events I have seen over the years (coronation, royal weddings, state funerals)...and it brought out many of the same emotions I have related to the uncomfortable mix of the spiritual power of the Gospel with the coercive power of the state. There were parts of the service that were lovely and quite moving, culminating with Erica's expressed forgiveness and clear articulation of faith in Jesus. Much of the worship was quite sincere as well - heart-felt I'm sure. But, unfortunately, some other parts of the service were more profane, including Steven Miller's evocation of a political holy war against "them," and President Trump's declaration of hate for his enemies.

As an Anabaptist, it reminds me once again of the unholy alliance of faith and politics. I fear the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk is pulling unwary Christians further into Trump/Miller's political war rather than toward the love-grounded and nonresistant gospel of Christ - and that does not advance the Kingdom.

In other words, a “conversion “ without ever knowing the Christ of the Bible.

I think it is possible that people will be genuinely converted as a result of Erika's testimony, while others will be converted into something the very opposite of the Gospel. I don't think we as observers need to choose one perspective or the other. I think both can result from situations like this.

[JohnH]

The parts of the Memorial service I saw reminded me a bit of some of the United Kingdom state events I have seen over the years (coronation, royal weddings, state funerals)...and it brought out many of the same emotions I have related to the uncomfortable mix of the spiritual power of the Gospel with the coercive power of the state. There were parts of the service that were lovely and quite moving, culminating with Erica's expressed forgiveness and clear articulation of faith in Jesus. Much of the worship was quite sincere as well - heart-felt I'm sure. But, unfortunately, some other parts of the service were more profane, including Steven Miller's evocation of a political holy war against "them," and President Trump's declaration of hate for his enemies.

As an Anabaptist, it reminds me once again of the unholy alliance of faith and politics. I fear the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk is pulling unwary Christians further into Trump/Miller's political war rather than toward the love-grounded and nonrestiant gospel of Christ - and that does not advance the Kingdom.

In other words, a “conversion “ without ever knowing the Christ of the Bible.

I’m glad y’all fired God as being the judge of souls and conversions, He probably appreciates He can step down from that job since most Anabaptists are exceptional in standing in judgement of people they never met. Hah.

To the Anabaptists shame most of the world has no idea of their faith because they seem to care more about staying in their safe inner circles & families than getting out there to reach the list like Charlie. I have heard more talk of forgiveness and not returning hate based on Jesus’ words from those that some at his memorial so I would not be quick to assume conversions may not look like the Anabaptist sects of splits galore, but they just may have passed from darkness to Light.

I’m about to say that certain Anabaptists can criticize the evangelistic work of others once they have (a) died for their faith, and (b) brought as many people to church for the first time.

Most struggle to ever even get past (b). As I said, if you don’t like this, invite someone to your own church and share the gospel message with them.