What are your thoughts re Hegelian Dialectic & CRT in the Church?

[R7ehr]

How can we “celebrate diversity” while simultaneously denying that diversity exists? Why do we laud the high points of any given culture, while denying that the low points are real? This is liberal head in sand behavior, the same as conservatives denying that discrimination has long term effects.

What specifically are you referring to? What are these low points that people are denying?

For example, men commit about 90% of all violent crime in this country and more than 90% of sex crimes. Is that a low point that we should be talking about? That is a vastly larger disparity than anything to do with race or ethnicity.

Last I checked, “men” are not a culture. But I may be a whisker behind on the most recent permutations of gender matters.

Specifically, I am thinking of education as it relates to white/asian/black culture in America. And comparing how liberals adamantly refuse to consider that black culture treats education differently than Asians. But when it comes to music and fashion for example, liberals seem to have no problem highlighting the black contributions in these fields, and holding these up as evidence of diversity being a good thing.

Does this help in understanding my previous post?

[temporal1]

Just so you cannot snuggly assume I capitulated, o, I do not defend the absurd admission policies of elite colleges.
But if you th8nk blacks are disadvantaged in those policies you are nuts.

I will leave it to others. I have no desire to continue this thread with you. You are locked in. Go spend more on public education, find more new sociological inventions to explain its failures in general and for minorities specifically. More failure ahead.

I did not have a problem with my daughter’s school providing two sets of books.
It is a solution to the problem. But it does not cure the underlying issues that a community that mocks education fails.
And that is not racist.

By the way, is it your opinion that in 2025 America, crime is disproportionately committed by blacks (often against blacks)?
Do you agree or disagree? And is that statement racist?

My hope is with black conservatives, there are many, and increasing, they’ve been treated MISERABLY without complaint,
they seem to be FINALLY getting some broader recognition in airwaves. i HOPE this will follow in education!

i’ve referred to them regularly on this forum.
often expecting to be ignored if not unwanted. i was NOT expecting things to unfold as they have.
i hope it’s a good beginning. Many are Christian, some Catholic.

No order:

Thomas Sowell
Dr Alveda King
Dr Ben Carson
Carol Swain
Herman Cain (passed away)
Larry Elder
Byron Donalds
Cardinal Sarah

Everyday guys:
Doc Rich
Anthony Brian Logan
The Officer Tatum
Amir Odom
Amala Ekpunobi
Jesse Lee Peterson
The Cartier Family

More+more appearing, i don’t try to keep up.
The internet is giving them voice they were formerly denied; i’m sure rejection by their own community has been the worst.

i’m glad to be present to witness.
i’m not surprised it happened. i had NO idea of timing.

Who better to lead?

[JohnH]

It is racist because you are stereotyping and blaming the educational success or failure of a specific Black student on race in the form of "Black culture" rather than his or her individual efforts in the classroom.

Are you sure about that? It seems to me that discussing cultural forces means blaming it on the student's parents, not the student himself.

That doesn't mean it is a false explanation for educational disparities. There is definitely truth in it. But if we lived in a colorblind society then no one would be talking about "black culture" as a negative now would they? We would only be talking about the individual choices of individual students and families.

Hey, I'm all for living in a colorblind society, but to do so, one would have to stop ever talking about "racism" period. And there would still be analysis that "hmm, it seems certain extended families value education, and other extended families do not".

[Ken]

How can we “celebrate diversity” while simultaneously denying that diversity exists? Why do we laud the high points of any given culture, while denying that the low points are real? This is liberal head in sand behavior, the same as conservatives denying that discrimination has long term effects.

What specifically are you referring to? What are these low points that people are denying?

For example, men commit about 90% of all violent crime in this country and more than 90% of sex crimes. Is that a low point that we should be talking about? That is a vastly larger disparity than anything to do with race or ethnicity.

Last I checked, “men” are not a culture. But I may be a whisker behind on the most recent permutations of gender matters.

Specifically, I am thinking of education as it relates to white/asian/black culture in America. And comparing how liberals adamantly refuse to consider that black culture treats education differently than Asians. But when it comes to music and fashion for example, liberals seem to have no problem highlighting the black contributions in these fields, and holding these up as evidence of diversity being a good thing.

Does this help in understanding my previous post?

I've taught in a conservative school district in Texas, and several in Washington that are middle of the road. In every school and district, teachers and administrators laser focused on the cultural issues that hamstring educational achievement. Not just Black culture (although that gets discussed) but also Hispanic culture, Poor/Blue collar culture, and most recently Pacific Islander culture. I haven't seen one school that wasn't desperately trying to get parents more engaged in their children's education. From reading to your kids and helping with homework when they are little, to making sure they get to school on time and attend school at the HS level.

The biggest factor BY FAR is economic not race or ethnicity. At the wealthiest school I work in it is often standing room only at Football and basketball games and other events, school carnivals, PTAs, etc. are hugely attended. School board meetings are often standing room only. Parent open houses are hugely attended. And the schools are full of parent volunteers, especially the elementary schools. At the poorest school where I teach the kids play to empty stadiums and arenas which just a few parents and students attending. Barely anyone shows for open house. And they struggle to get any parent engagement. There are some stand-out parents who are super-volunteers, but they are the exception. The racial demographics are not all that different. Both are majority White schools but the wealthy one has lots more Asian-American students where the poor one has more Hispanic students but also lots of more recent Asian-American students as well. There aren't many Blacks around here one way or the other.

In my almost 20 years of teaching by FAR the most engaged parents I have ever encountered were professional Black moms back in Texas. These are women who are often retired army officers working in corporate or professional jobs (Fort Hood was next door) or otherwise high achieving professional women. They would show up during open house first week of school with their business cards and say "so and so is my son (or daughter). If you have any issues at all with my child academically or in terms of discipline, PLEASE PLEASE contact me first and give us a chance to deal with it before you put them into the school disciplinary system. At school events they would always seek me out to say hi and ask how their child was doing. Just super engaged in a supportive way. It was frankly awesome because if I was having trouble with any of their kids all I needed to do was write a draft email home explaining what difficulty I was having, call the student up to my desk to show them the draft email, and say "If you don't shape up this email goes out to your mom at the end of the period". They would be on their best behavior for the rest of the week for fear of mom's wrath.

So stereotypes are just that. Stereotypes. Even if they hold true generally there are always plenty of exceptions.

Engagement from White parents is often more helicopter-ish so constant emails asking why their child is missing an assignment or got a C instead of an A on some test. Along with pressure to inflate their grades or cut them slack. "The reason why your child has a missing assignment is because they didn't turn it in. Ask THEM why it is missing".

[Ken]

It is racist because you are stereotyping and blaming the educational success or failure of a specific Black student on race in the form of "Black culture" rather than his or her individual efforts in the classroom.

Are you sure about that? It seems to me that discussing cultural forces means blaming it on the student's parents, not the student himself.

That is what I am saying. Blaming "black culture" for poor student achievement can be a toxic form of racism. I have seen teachers who write off Black students because of where they are coming from "Lamar is never going to amount to much because of the neighborhood he comes from and who is parent's are" It isn't racism based on some belief in genetic inferiority, but rather, racism a belief in cultural inferiority. It is the whole "kids from that side of the tracks are never going to amount to much" attitude. No different from the same sentiment expressed about White kids from redneck Appalachia culture. Just because there is an element of truth in it at the wider level doesn't mean it isn't a form of bias when applied to an individual child.

[JohnH]

So, is it true or not?

It seems a teacher would need to be more motivated to try harder with kids from backgrounds that don’t value education, not the opposite like you implied.

[ohio jones]

I'm the only one here who has actually provided a definition of critical race theory.

I'm not inclined to check the entire thread, but from the first few pages it's obvious that is not true.

Well, if you really want a definition of CRT here's one from the UCLA School of Public Affairs:

Bell and Crenshaw seem to have started CRT, I'm inclined to let them define it. Here's what Crenshaw says:

[Ken]

I'm the only one here who has actually provided a definition of critical race theory.

I'm not inclined to check the entire thread, but from the first few pages it's obvious that is not true.

Well, if you really want a definition of CRT here's one from the UCLA School of Public Affairs:

Bell and Crenshaw seem to have started CRT, I'm inclined to let them define it. Here's what Crenshaw says:

I was referencing the current conversation between myself and JayP not this entire 4-year long thread.

[Ken]

So, is it true or not?

It seems a teacher would need to be more motivated to try harder with kids from backgrounds that don’t value education, not the opposite like you implied.

I gave you an example of how culture (and not genetics) can be a basis for racism and racist attitudes. Namely a belief in cultural inferiority rather than genetic inferiority.

I'm not suggesting that most teachers share those attitudes. But some bad ones do.

[JayP]

Ken, you are the one falling back on stereotypes.
No disagreement, parents that care are the biggest factor in educational success for their kids.
By the numbers, fewer black parents care. Yeah, the root cause is economics and broken homes. It is not racist to say that.
It is a search for the problem which is step one to a solution.

In regards to CRT, Education Week just referenced red lining IN THE 30s as an example of CRT.
This is exactly my point. Red lining has not occurred for over 60 years. The banking system is NOT systemically racist.
If it was, we would not have had the crash of 2008.

CRT is simply not helpful.