ICE targets Church Leaders and Christians Fleeing Persecution

[Grace]

Or you know. Maybe we can just stop deporting people who have legitimate refugee status or legitimate asylum claims.

Is that a tangible enough solution?

I was addressing Szdfan's questions concerning the response the church should have towards Iranian Christians who came here because of persecution and now are being deported to Panama.

If the church can’t speak with clarity when the state inflicts suffering — especially on fellow believers — then what exactly is it for?

So, what is the solution for the church to respond to this issue?

[Bootstrap]

So I’m genuinely curious—

How do you decide who deserves compassion and who doesn’t? What’s the principle that guides you?

To be more specific, how do we decide whether Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran deserve our compassion, if they are treated the way we see in those videos?

Let's focus on the situation at hand.

Did they deserve our compassion when they were persecuted in Iran? Do they still deserve our compassion now?

Can you explain to us what entering the U.S. from Mexico has to do with "fleeing persecution in Iran"?

So your answer is "no, not if they entered from Mexico"?

These people came here using CBP One, which means they came to Mexico first, then applied for a legal appointment to request asylum at the border. The US government allowed them to enter legally. Now ICE shows up looking like this and just grabs them. Does that deserve any compassion?

[Ken]

Or you know. Maybe we can just stop deporting people who have legitimate refugee status or legitimate asylum claims.

Is that a tangible enough solution?

I was addressing Szdfan's questions concerning the response the church should have towards Iranian Christians who came here because of persecution and now are being deported to Panama.

If the church can’t speak with clarity when the state inflicts suffering — especially on fellow believers — then what exactly is it for?

So, what is the solution for the church to respond to this issue?

A whole lot of churches across the country are currently speaking truth to power on this issue. They don't have much ability to do anything else. It is ultimately a political issue not a religious one. And the solutions are political not religious.

[Bootstrap]

I see a lot of lamenting and complaining about the situation concerning ICE agents going after people here illegally, which includes people of ALL religions, not just Christians.

In this thread, we are talking about Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran.

For some reason, people keep trying to change the subject.

So, what is your solution for these Iranian Christians? Should they be hidden, like people hid the Jews from the Nazi's during WWII? Or how the slaves were hidden and given a path to freedom through the Underground Railroad, in the 1800's. Are you willing to start an organization that reaches out to these Christians, protecting them from ICE? Are you willing to work against the government, in reference to ICE.

It is easy to complain that the church isn't doing enough for the Iranian Christians, not showing compassion, or to point a finger etc. etc. But that seems so shallow in comparison to actually doing something tangible for the suffering Iranian Christians, that are being deported by ICE.

Because there aren't any tangible suggestions for this problem being presented here, it appears to me to be a subtle underhanded political thread against ICE.

I think there’s a misunderstanding here.

You seem to be arguing that unless someone has a fully developed plan to solve this situation, they shouldn’t express concern or compassion. I don’t think that follows. It’s possible to care deeply and lament injustice even when we don’t have an immediate solution.

You also compared this to hiding Jews during the Holocaust or helping slaves escape through the Underground Railroad. Those were extraordinary, heroic acts of conscience in the face of mass extermination and legalized slavery. I admire and honor the courage of the people who risked everything to do that. But most people here are not suggesting breaking the law. They’re simply acknowledging that it is tragic to detain and deport people who fled persecution for their faith.

Lamenting this isn’t shallow. It’s a human and Christian response to suffering. Even when we can’t personally intervene or rescue someone, we can still stand in solidarity, pray for those affected, and advocate for more compassionate policies.

Pointing out that something is wrong doesn’t have to be a political attack. Sometimes it’s just an expression of compassion and solidarity. In this case, solidarity with persecuted Christians.

[Bootstrap]

Or you know. Maybe we can just stop deporting people who have legitimate refugee status or legitimate asylum claims.

Is that a tangible enough solution?

I was addressing Szdfan's questions concerning the response the church should have towards Iranian Christians who came here because of persecution and now are being deported to Panama.

If the church can’t speak with clarity when the state inflicts suffering — especially on fellow believers — then what exactly is it for?

So, what is the solution for the church to respond to this issue?

A whole lot of churches across the country are currently speaking truth to power on this issue. They don't have much ability to do anything else. It is ultimately a political issue not a religious one. And the solutions are political not religious.

I’d like to gently push back on this.

It seems to me that in America, a lot of people can only think about issues like this in political categories—often just in partisan terms. When that happens, we can lose sight of other things that are just as real and important: prayer, compassion, solidarity, and simply bearing witness to what is right.

Withdrawing our support or our automatic defense of those who carry out these policies is not trivial. It’s a meaningful step. Whether we realize it or not, many people perceive Christians as the ones standing behind these actions, justifying or excusing them. I think it matters to be clear that some of us don’t agree and don’t want our faith to be used that way.

Ultimately, we have to ask: Do we have eyes to see the Kingdom of God as something real and weighty that matters more than any political calculation? Or are we only able to see the world through the lens of politics?

[Bootstrap]

If they were silent from 2020 to 2024 when the government was part of extreme bureaucratic cruelty, they have no room to make accusations now.

This feels like a red flag to me. People don’t have to prove they were 100% consistent in their past opinions before we can have a conversation about what is right today. And people don't have to agree with your understanding of the past to talk about what is happening today.

If we remain silent now while persecuted Christians who came here legally are treated this way, we will have no right to object when the same tactics are used against us or people we care about in the future. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

If we only speak up when it’s convenient or when our side is in power, that’s not much of a witness. But doing the right thing now shouldn’t depend on whether someone perfectly passed an ideological purity test in the past.

[JohnH]

Can you explain to us what entering the U.S. from Mexico has to do with "fleeing persecution in Iran"?

So your answer is "no, not if they entered from Mexico"?

These people came here using CBP One, which means they came to Mexico first, then applied for a legal appointment to request asylum at the border. The US government allowed them to enter legally. Now ICE shows up looking like this and just grabs them. Does that deserve any compassion?

Someone in Mexico who tries to enter the U.S. is not fleeing persecution in Iran. Iran doesn't share a border with America, and Mexico is a country that, as far as I know, is not persecuted people for being Christians.

Whether or now they "deserve any compassion" is a different topic - but it has nothing to do with "fleeing persecution in Iran".

[Bootstrap]

Can you explain to us what entering the U.S. from Mexico has to do with "fleeing persecution in Iran"?

So your answer is "no, not if they entered from Mexico"?

These people came here using CBP One, which means they came to Mexico first, then applied for a legal appointment to request asylum at the border. The US government allowed them to enter legally. Now ICE shows up looking like this and just grabs them. Does that deserve any compassion?

Someone in Mexico who tries to enter the U.S. is not fleeing persecution in Iran. Iran doesn't share a border with America, and Mexico is a country that, as far as I know, is not persecuted people for being Christians.

Whether or now they "deserve any compassion" is a different topic - but it has nothing to do with "fleeing persecution in Iran".

I understand your point, but to me this feels like quite a narrow, legalistic perspective. The fact that they passed through Mexico doesn’t change that they were fleeing persecution in Iran—and it also doesn’t change that they were suddenly swept up by paramilitary ICE agents with masks, no identification, and no warning. That seems like something that deserves compassion and serious concern, regardless of the legal technicalities.

[Ken]

I was addressing Szdfan's questions concerning the response the church should have towards Iranian Christians who came here because of persecution and now are being deported to Panama.



So, what is the solution for the church to respond to this issue?

A whole lot of churches across the country are currently speaking truth to power on this issue. They don't have much ability to do anything else. It is ultimately a political issue not a religious one. And the solutions are political not religious.

I’d like to gently push back on this.

It seems to me that in America, a lot of people can only think about issues like this in political categories—often just in partisan terms. When that happens, we can lose sight of other things that are just as real and important: prayer, compassion, solidarity, and simply bearing witness to what is right.

Withdrawing our support or our automatic defense of those who carry out these policies is not trivial. It’s a meaningful step. Whether we realize it or not, many people perceive Christians as the ones standing behind these actions, justifying or excusing them. I think it matters to be clear that some of us don’t agree and don’t want our faith to be used that way.

Ultimately, we have to ask: Do we have eyes to see the Kingdom of God as something real and weighty that matters more than any political calculation? Or are we only able to see the world through the lens of politics?

I'm not sure what you are pushing back on here.

Politics is the art of persuasion. And taking stands does have some meaning. I'm not arguing that churches and individual people shouldn't take stands on issues of concern to them. Whether it be immigration or anything else.

But nothing will ACTUALLY change until policies change. It is naive to think otherwise.

[JohnH]

I understand your point, but to me this feels like quite a narrow, legalistic perspective. The fact that they passed through Mexico doesn’t change that they were fleeing persecution in Iran—and it also doesn’t change that they were suddenly swept up by paramilitary ICE agents with masks, no identification, and no warning. That seems like something that deserves compassion and serious concern, regardless of the legal technicalities.

The fact that ICE swept them up has zip all to do with the fact they are "Christians fleeing persecution", though. Do you want to talk about immigration issues and policy in general, or do you want to talk about Christians fleeing persecution?

The simple fact is that we don't have Christians fleeing persecution entering the U.S., because none of our neighbors are persecuting Christians (although Canada was pretty brutal with the one Polish pastor who decided to have church services during the COVID era, and was subsequently arrested; I would support him being allowed to enter the U.S. and seek asylum and be granted it, but as far as I know he stayed in Canada and wanted to continue his ministry there).

If you want to start a thread to discuss whether federal agents need to wear identification that satisfies you, shouldn't wear masks (did you have this same stance during the COVID era in 2020/2021 that federal agents shouldn't wear masks?), or should provide warning (whatever that means - generally speaking, federal agents raiding someone or detaining people don't provide "warning" for obvious reasons), that would be fine with me. If it is excessively political in nature, I would hope you would do so in the Politics subforum.