ICE targets Church Leaders and Christians Fleeing Persecution

[JohnH]

John the Baptist wasn't afraid to speak prophetically to a politician about what is right and wrong.

He spoke directly to a person about his personally immoral behavior he needed to change.

He certainly wasn’t speaking to him about policy.

[Szdfan]

I’m not talking about the church running the government. I’m talking about the church not losing its soul when the government causes harm.

It doesn’t take a political campaign to say, “This is wrong.” You don’t need to call for open borders to say, “These people are suffering, and we shouldn’t justify it.”

I’m not demanding that Christians fix the system overnight. I’m asking why so many seem more invested in defending bureaucratic cruelty than in seeing the people crushed by it.

If the church can’t speak with clarity when the state inflicts suffering — especially on fellow believers — then what exactly is it for?

OK. First of all, I'd ask what you mean by "the church".

Is "the church" speaking with clarify on the abject horror of abortion? Over 1 million were killed last year.

Is "the church" speaking about the grave sin of homosexual marriage and the judgment that brings on a people, which we can clearly see spelled out in scripture?

Do you support "the church" speaking out about those things? Do you agree they're at a far deeper level than immigration policy concerning whether someone gets relocated from the U.S. to Panama?

I think the Church should speak out on whatever issues it believes Christian discipleship calls it to, even if I don’t always agree theologically. I’m not asking for silence on abortion or marriage. I’m asking why, when the conversation turns to human suffering caused by government immigration policy, it gets minimized or brushed aside.

Why is the response when fellow Christians fleeing persecution are deported, the response is, “Well a process was followed?”

This brings me to a theme I’ve noticed in your posts over the years. You often argue that certain people deserve compassion, while others don’t. In this case, Iranian refugees who came here legally and were arbitrarily deported to Panama don’t apparently deserve your compassion.

So I’m genuinely curious—

How do you decide who deserves compassion and who doesn’t? What’s the principle that guides you?

[Bootstrap]

I see a lot of lamenting and complaining about the situation concerning ICE agents going after people here illegally, which includes people of ALL religions, not just Christians.

In this thread, we are talking about Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran.

For some reason, people keep trying to change the subject.

[Bootstrap]

So I’m genuinely curious—

How do you decide who deserves compassion and who doesn’t? What’s the principle that guides you?

To be more specific, how do we decide whether Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran deserve our compassion, if they are treated the way we see in those videos?

Let's focus on the situation at hand.

Did they deserve our compassion when they were persecuted in Iran? Do they still deserve our compassion now?

[JohnH]

So I’m genuinely curious—

How do you decide who deserves compassion and who doesn’t? What’s the principle that guides you?

To be more specific, how do we decide whether Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran deserve our compassion, if they are treated the way we see in those videos?

Let's focus on the situation at hand.

Did they deserve our compassion when they were persecuted in Iran? Do they still deserve our compassion now?

Can you explain to us what entering the U.S. from Mexico has to do with "fleeing persecution in Iran"?

I have a lot of compassion for people fleeing persecution. However, we aren't talking about people fleeing persecution in Mexico - and as far as I know, there isn't widespread persecution of Christians in Mexico, nor people fleeing it. Iran doesn't share a border with America.

To make another example, I might have compassion for someone fleeing persecution, but if that some person decides to trespass into a convenience store and is asked to leave, that really doesn't have anything to do with the fact he was earlier fleeing persecution.

And as I have stated many times - if I have a neighbor or other person right in front of me that I can help, or advocate for, or show compassion to, that's what I do. I have not yet personally encountered someone being deported who was fleeing persecution. The last person my family helped who was at risk of being deported we went to a lot of effort to help out (he was facing deportation due to false accusations of domestic violence from a rather messed up family situation his wife was involved in, where basically her mother pressured her to do so). That's the kind of thing I think is actually important.

[Grace]

I see a lot of lamenting and complaining about the situation concerning ICE agents going after people here illegally, which includes people of ALL religions, not just Christians.

In this thread, we are talking about Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran.

For some reason, people keep trying to change the subject.

So, what is your solution for these Iranian Christians? Should they be hidden, like people hid the Jews from the Nazi's during WWII? Or how the slaves were hidden and given a path to freedom through the Underground Railroad, in the 1800's. Are you willing to start an organization that reaches out to these Christians, protecting them from ICE? Are you willing to work against the government, in reference to ICE.

It is easy to complain that the church isn't doing enough for the Iranian Christians, not showing compassion, or to point a finger etc. etc. But that seems so shallow in comparison to actually doing something tangible for the suffering Iranian Christians, that are being deported by ICE.

Because there aren't any tangible suggestions for this problem being presented here, it appears to me to be a subtle underhanded political thread against ICE.

[JohnH]

If I knew someone in that situation and thought I could help (which I currently don't), I would be looking for other countries to go to, perhaps that have a significant Iranian diaspora. Canada, Germany, Israel, Sweden, Australia. I don't know how receptive they would be to refugees, but that would be what I would focus on.

[Ken]

I see a lot of lamenting and complaining about the situation concerning ICE agents going after people here illegally, which includes people of ALL religions, not just Christians.

In this thread, we are talking about Christians who came here legally to escape persecution in Iran.

For some reason, people keep trying to change the subject.

So, what is your solution for these Iranian Christians? Should they be hidden, like people hid the Jews from the Nazi's during WWII? Or how the slaves were hidden and given a path to freedom through the Underground Railroad, in the 1800's. Are you willing to start an organization that reaches out to these Christians, protecting them from ICE? Are you willing to work against the government, in reference to ICE.

It is easy to complain that the church isn't doing enough for the Iranian Christians, not showing compassion, or to point a finger etc. etc. But that seems so shallow in comparison to actually doing something tangible for the suffering Iranian Christians, that are being deported by ICE.

Because there aren't any tangible suggestions for this problem being presented here, it appears to me to be a subtle underhanded political thread against ICE.

Or you know. Maybe we can just stop deporting people who have legitimate refugee status or legitimate asylum claims.

Is that a tangible enough solution?

[Jazman]

But after the government worked to protect Christians who were facing persecution, inviting them to come here, they are deporting these same people. They are only "here illegally" because the government changed their status recently. And that's really rough on them.

Depending on the context, the officials involved (character/expertise) and how they conduct the process, I'm cautiously ok with what God-ordained gov does generally (unless they specifically force me to do something against my conscience) But in this case I'm not confident that they (admin./agency/masked agents?) followed the law or norms in "changing" the status or executing the operation... In "changing" the status, was a by-the-books/written law procedure followed? Was a law/bill rewritten by Congress-signed by president that changes their status? Was a credible warrant shown? Why are the agents masked? (normal law enforcement or FBI or Secret Service or ATF doesn't do that... why are these guys doing this? Why transport detainees far across the country to detention rather than near where they are first detained like normal law enforcement does?

As a Christian not in any gov position, there's not a lot I can do about this current event... other than making other Christians aware of it as I've done here: Not to stir up some kind of mob or political campaign or protest march... I assume most of us here are in a similar position. But I/we, personally or collectively can do these things when we hear stories like this...
1. Ask questions as I've done above. Discern, judge, question gov actions, procedures etc; And speaking to myself, do this regardless of partisan blinders/tendencies... Critical thinking is one way the Holy Spirit works in and through us...

2. If there's radically new, treacherous (jerking the rug out from under someone without due process/explanation/forewarning), duplicitous, coy or sadistic means employed, then say so, expose that, condemn that... Jesus didn't call Herod a "fox" for nothing... (but He didn't lead an insurrection against Herod either) Christians have been speaking, writing and praying like this (questioning/judging gov actions) throughout the church age. I don't see anything in the NT that prohibits that.

3. Pray for the people involved: If someone's been hurt or dealt with treacherously, pray that they are comforted, that they are recompensed and receive justice; that they are safe, and can flourish as God intended. Pray for the gov/agents etc... if they're acting honorably, pray they continue; if they are not, pray that they stop doing what they're doing even if it costs them personally. (Again, I concede the NT injunction to "pray for", but I don't see that telling me to pray "blessing"/justification/excusing/rationalization/"job well done" upon them...) I doubt the Jerusalem church was praying "how can we get along / they're just doing their job / let them be" kind of prayers for the Roman guards/local rulers when Peter was sitting in jail before an angel released him... But again, per Jesus' example, neither do we pray harm/fire & brimstone down upon them either! Instead we pray for repentance and their post-repentance flourishing as well!

I say all this knowing I fail this high standard at times... writing this may help remind me to do better at living up to it.

[ohio jones]

Or you know. Maybe we can just stop deporting people who have legitimate refugee status or legitimate asylum claims.

Careful with the inclusive collective pronoun. I don't think anyone here is deporting anyone.