Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[Valerie]

We no longer have a legal process of any kind.

What we have instead is a government breaking the law right and left to achieve their political objectives because they found the legal process too inconvenient and constraining.

It’s a shame Biden created this whole terrible situation just to get votes from illegal citizens (yes that’s why they started pouring in as soon as he “supposedly “ was elected) it’s all about getting more votes NOT compassion. Studies have already shown Republicans donate more than Democrats so I’m sick and tired of the accusations that because we want control over our borders we are haters. That is a false accusation.

Do you actually believe any of what you just wrote?

Tell me. What exactly is an “illegal citizen”?

Is that the new right wing euphemism for non-white people voting?

I didn’t mean to write citizen and yes I believe what I wrote. I understand why you do not.

[Ken]

It’s a shame Biden created this whole terrible situation just to get votes from illegal citizens (yes that’s why they started pouring in as soon as he “supposedly “ was elected) it’s all about getting more votes NOT compassion. Studies have already shown Republicans donate more than Democrats so I’m sick and tired of the accusations that because we want control over our borders we are haters. That is a false accusation.

Do you actually believe any of what you just wrote?

Tell me. What exactly is an “illegal citizen”?

Is that the new right wing euphemism for non-white people voting?

I didn’t mean to write citizen and yes I believe what I wrote. I understand why you do not.

Because none of it is true.

First, illegal immigrants can’t vote. The conservative Heritage Foundation did a survey of voting databases and found only 10 examples of undocumented immigrants incorrectly voting since 1985. It is a non-issue. Far more Americans vote fraudulently even though that number is still tiny. And there are more Republicans convicted of voter fraud than Democrats. Those are the facts.

Second, undocumented immigrants have no path to citizenship (and voting) in this country. None. The last time that happened was during the Reagan Administration over 40 years ago. So no matter how many come in, none of them have a path to citizenship and becoming voters and haven’t since the 1980s.

Third, undocumented immigrants mostly migrate to 5 states: California, Texas, Florida, New York, and New Jersey. None of those are swing states. So it would be a really stupid plan to let in undocumented immigrants for the purpose of voting only to have them move to states like California, Texas, and Florida where their vote isn’t going to affect results.

Fourth, Biden/Harris had a LOT more individual contributors than Trump did in 2024. Look it up. The numbers are publicly available. Elon Musk stepped in at the last minute with hundreds of millions of dollars to make up the gap. But Biden and especially Harris had a LOT more individual small donors than Trump did in 2024.

Fifth, the Biden Administration consistently sought more resources for immigration enforcement throughout its entire term. Congress was actually on the verge of approving a big increase in immigration enforcement funding until Trump intervened to block the legislation. Did we all forget that? I guess it worked because he got elected on a so-called immigration crisis that was partly of his own making.

Sixth. Murders and violent crime rates dropped consistently and dramatically across the country during the Biden Administration. In fact, murders and violent crime may have dropped more during Biden’s four years from 2021-2024 than in any other 4-year presidential administration in history. Is this the “terrible” situation you are speaking of? And if you want to get more granular, every place that saw large increases in immigration during the Biden Administration saw falling murder and violent crime rates during the same period. Like NYC, Chicago, and Los Angeles. And the cities with the highest crime rates in the US are cities with the lowest percentages of immigrants. The cities with the highest murder rates in 2024 were St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Detroit, all of which are cities with very low levels of immigration. If immigrants caused increases in crime then the opposite would be true.

Feel free to look any of these facts up yourself.

[Szdfan]

That’s why we have a legal process. Jesus never encouraged breaking the law.

Jesus did break the law. He violated religious laws when he healed the sick on the Sabbath or when he touched leppers. The Romans executed him as a criminal.

Oh please. You simply are not aware of why this administration is trying to protect the country he was elected to. That’s a silly comparison.

I was pointing out that your statement that Jesus never broke the law wasn’t true.

[JohnH]

Jesus did not break the law. As the ultimate lawgiver and the origin of law itself and the concept of right and wrong, how could he break it?

Rather, unjust judges judged wrongly, as they sometimes do.

Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath. He was and is in charge of what is lawful to do on the Sabbath.

[Grace]

Typical strawman tactic.

Fifth, the Biden Administration consistently sought more resources for immigration enforcement throughout its entire term. Congress was actually on the verge of approving a big increase in immigration enforcement funding until Trump intervened to block the legislation. Did we all forget that? I guess it worked because he got elected on a so-called immigration crisis that was partly of his own making.

Of course, the Biden administration sought more resources for immigration enforcement. With the huge increase in illegal crossings, more resources were needed. For the first three years of his administration, more than 7.2 million migrants had illegally crossed into the U.S. over just the Southwest border. That amount is higher than the individual populations of 36 states.

Sixth. Murders and violent crime rates dropped consistently and dramatically across the country during the Biden Administration. In fact, murders and violent crime may have dropped more during Biden’s four years from 2021-2024 than in any other 4-year presidential administration in history. Is this the “terrible” situation you are speaking of? And if you want to get more granular, every place that saw large increases in immigration during the Biden Administration saw falling murder and violent crime rates during the same period. Like NYC, Chicago, and Los Angeles. And the cities with the highest crime rates in the US are cities with the lowest percentages of immigrants. The cities with the highest murder rates in 2024 were St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Detroit, all of which are cities with very low levels of immigration. If immigrants caused increases in crime then the opposite would be true.

What does that have to do with anything. There were heinous crimes committed by illegals. None of those crimes should have happened, beings the people committing them, should not have been here in the first place.

The Biden administration by default became the largest purveyors of drug, sex, and human trafficking in the world. No matter how much deception and strawman tactics are used to defend Biden's disastrous open borders, it doesn't change that fact.

[Soloist]

Are we just not capable of keeping politics in politics?

It’s one thing to discuss Christian responses, It’s another thing to start discussing bad policies. If the two are inseparable, I would suggest you create a separate thread under the politics to discuss it.

[Grace]

Are we just not capable of keeping politics in politics?

It’s one thing to discuss Christian responses, It’s another thing to start discussing bad policies. If the two are inseparable, I would suggest you create a separate thread under the politics to discuss it.

Illegal aliens (as used in the title of the thread) and bad policies, are "inseparable. The two are intwined.

[Bootstrap]

Are we just not capable of keeping politics in politics?

It’s one thing to discuss Christian responses, It’s another thing to start discussing bad policies. If the two are inseparable, I would suggest you create a separate thread under the politics to discuss it.

And perhaps put the new thread in the politics forum?

To me, one of the blessings of a non-political forum is that it forces us to try to think as Christians, ask what the Bible tells us about a biblical worldview, ask what WE are called to.

In mainstream media, everything is so politicized and polarized, and that can easily become the default way to think and feel about anything. If we want to avoid being worldly, we need different ways to think and feel about things.

[JohnH]

Are we just not capable of keeping politics in politics?

It’s one thing to discuss Christian responses, It’s another thing to start discussing bad policies. If the two are inseparable, I would suggest you create a separate thread under the politics to discuss it.

And perhaps put the new thread in the politics forum?

To me, one of the blessings of a non-political forum is that it forces us to try to think as Christians, ask what the Bible tells us about a biblical worldview, ask what WE are called to.

In mainstream media, everything is so politicized and polarized, and that can easily become the default way to think and feel about anything. If we want to avoid being worldly, we need different ways to think and feel about things.

Multiple participants in this thread keep bringing up politicians. Either all those posts get moved to the politics thread, or this entire thread does.

[Szdfan]

You don’t understand my position correctly, and I don’t think you are engaging with me in good faith.

Ok. So what am I misunderstanding or misrepresenting in the summary I provided above?

I’m not willing to discuss it with you until I feel you’re not engaging in bad faith. If you want to engage further, you can PM me.

Ok. I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain your view as clearly as possible and to make sure that I understood you. I appreciate your willingness to engage up to this point. Thank you.

Due to the contentiousness of our relationship, I don’t want to have private conversations with you. I think it’s better for both of us if our interactions are public and accountable to the rest of the community here. I prefer a public record.

I also want to acknowledge that I appreciate the reminder from Robert about the values this forum tries to follow -- respect, compassion, dignity. I agree those values matter deeply and I also believe they are not incompatible with accountability or moral clarity. That’s the spirit in which I’m offering the following.

John, I believe I understand the framework you’re arguing. I think you are using the same dehumanizing language that lies at the heart of far-right conspiracy theories regardless of your intentions or whether you came up with it on your own. “Replacement” rhetoric and Great Replacement Theory are not new. They are simply the latest packaging of old nativist and xenophobic arguments.

Your framework characterizes immigration as “replacement” and “invasion.” You've said that elites are deliberately using migration to displace American workers with low-wage foreigners. You frame the movement of people as the root cause of social harm. And you simultaneously deny the moral responsibility of your language while using it in precisely the ways it has historically been used to demonize and dehumanize immigrants.

While I understand your argument and can articulate your key claims, I am unwilling to intellectually or morally clean them up or pretend they're harmless. I won’t erase the history of what this language has been used to justify. I won’t pretend they’re neutral. And I don’t believe they are compatible with the Biblical imperatives for justice, hospitality, and care for the foreigner.

I understand you feel I'm misrepresenting and misunderstanding you. I understand you believe I’m waging a bad-faith campaign to harm you. You are entitled to those feelings. But I know what is in my heart. I don't want to harm you, but I also believe in holding people accountable for the words they use and the narratives they reinforce.

I am holding up a mirror here and asking you to reflect on what your framework and language implies. I think it reflects something that goes deeper than simple political or theological disagreement. I cannot accept the rhetoric or framework you've argued here as moral.

Regardless of your intentions, I believe your language and rhetoric echo a broader system of far-right ideology. Your refusal to acknowledge that doesn’t sever the connection. In recent years, rhetoric about “replacement” has been explicitly cited as justification for mass killings in Christchurch, El Paso, Buffalo, and the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh. In each case, the perpetrators believed they were defending against an existential threat framed by the very same language of demographic replacement that you use.

I don't believe you support or condone these atrocities. I don't believe you're a Nazi or a white supremacist. But there are undeniable parallels between your rhetoric and theirs and that matters.

Intent does not erase the impact of your words. The language we use shapes how we see others, and when it's unintentional, using the same words as extremists supports the fear, dehumanization and violence they are trying to create.

I’m not trying to convince you. I’m trying to create a record. I want to make sure everyone understands what you're saying. We live in an especially anti-immigrant moment where ICE agents snatch people off the street, where the government builds detention camps in Florida, where officials joke about alligators eating immigrants. The cruelty is the point. And the mainstreaming of Great Replacement Theory is one of the engines driving it.

This won’t last forever. At some point, the moral rot will collapse under its own weight. And the church will finally be forced to ask itself, “How did we let this happen?”And we’ll know. Because voices in the church by God-fearing Christians have said it.

Clearly.

Again and again.

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to be provocative (even though I probably am). I believe the Sciptures call us to speak out truthfully against harm, especially when it's hidden by polite or theological language. I think that an ideology of political grievance has caused many Christians in the US to support political action that harms some of the most vulnerable people in this country. I think this is something the church is called to name prophetically.