Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[JohnH]

however, I still hold that people don't need to be scared...

People are not necessarily "scared", but when an employer finds it can pad its bottom line by importing a large amount of migrants who live in bunk beds with 4 adults to a bedroom in what was formerly an affordable area, and pays lower wages to those workers than they used to pay local people who lived there, the people who are currently there are rightly upset. Wages become lower and housing costs become higher.

It's not fair to say people are "scared" of that. People just don't like it. It's also not fair to say "this is just change that you need to accept". It's entirely reasonable to think that a typical wage at a local employer should be able to pay for housing conditions other than 4 working adults to a bedroom in what was formerly a single-family house.

Of course, business owners and landlords win quite a bit in this situation, as do NGOs and staffing agencies who are involved in this entire racket. Both the migrants and the existing people lose, because someday the migrants might want to have a family and actually be able to afford a place to live, too. Converting a sleepy town into a shantytown is "change", but it's not a good change, and not one people should be mocked as being "scared" of.

[joshuabgood]

There may be reasonable responses and ideas around immigration...even ones that differ. But can we all agree that the current zeitgeist, as evidenced here in the extreme by the man who fairly and squarely won the Presidential office of the USA, stretches credulity.

[ken_sylvania]

Demographic shifts, also, are nothing to be scared of. Things change.

That's right. Demographic shifts are nothing to be scared of. If your neighborhood becomes Kensington Ave with homeless fentanyl addicts camping on your doorstep and in your backyard, that's nothing to be scared of. If it becomes South Shore, Chicago with rampant robbery, assault and gun violence, that's nothing to be scared of. In fact, if the demographic shifts away from hard-working Hispanics and shifts toward gangs of skinheads - that's nothing to be scared of at all. Things change, you know.

The only exception is if you live in Mexico or Venezuela or some such country and the demographics in your neighborhood change so that you no longer feel safe. Then you should be scared for your life and flee to the USA.

As someone hinted earlier, the Native Americans were fools to have been scared of the demographic shifts that occurred when the Europeans started crossing the Atlantic.

Here is the first use of Kensington in the discourse...and as you can see, I don't think it was me that made a link between Kensington and demographic shifts.

That looks more like linking Kensington to white people than linking it to black or brown people. At any rate the only examples of undesirables in that post are of white people (skinheads and white Europeans).

[Bootstrap]

Which immigrant births are not American births?

And which American births are not immigrant births? Even the American Indians probably came across the Bering Straight to get here ...

[Bootstrap]

Why mention Kensington and not being afraid of black and brown people then? We all see the humanity in all kinds of people; your statement suggests some of us don’t, which is spurious. Not all “demographic shifts” are equal. Although we’re called to treat all people with love and dignity we can do so without welcoming the destruction of neighborhoods and cultures especially when it involves vice, and death and soul-destroying substances.

I hear what you’re saying about crime and social problems destroying neighborhoods—those are real concerns. But when you respond to someone saying they’re not afraid of Black or Brown people by talking about “demographic shifts” that bring vice and destruction, it sounds like you’re saying race is the cause of those problems.

I’m not sure what all the causes are—poverty, bad schools, lack of opportunity, and other hard things probably all play a part. But I don’t think it’s about people’s skin color. It’s easy to mix up cause and effect and start blaming race for situations that are much more complicated.

I wasn't the on that linked Black and Brown people with the Kensington neighborhood. That was JBG. I was simply responding. Nice try.

These are your words. I may have misunderstood what you meant, but I was not trying to twist anything. Could you please explain your words, quoted above?

Perhaps they were not quite what you meant to say - what exactly did you mean to say?

[Bootstrap]

For perspective: As of the latest Census data we have, the percent of Americans who are foreign born is roughly the same as it was from 1860 to 1920. Did it cause some kind of crisis back then?

[ken_sylvania]

For perspective: As of the latest Census data we have, the percent of Americans who are foreign born is roughly the same as it was from 1860 to 1920. Did it cause some kind of crisis back then?


foreignborn.jpg

Caused a World War? Precipitated a depression?

[Ken]

For perspective: As of the latest Census data we have, the percent of Americans who are foreign born is roughly the same as it was from 1860 to 1920. Did it cause some kind of crisis back then?


foreignborn.jpg

Caused a World War? Precipitated a depression?

Nope. Neither of those things.

[Moses]

Demographic shifts, also, are nothing to be scared of. Things change.

That's right. Demographic shifts are nothing to be scared of. If your neighborhood becomes Kensington Ave with homeless fentanyl addicts camping on your doorstep and in your backyard, that's nothing to be scared of. If it becomes South Shore, Chicago with rampant robbery, assault and gun violence, that's nothing to be scared of. In fact, if the demographic shifts away from hard-working Hispanics and shifts toward gangs of skinheads - that's nothing to be scared of at all. Things change, you know.

As far as I can tell, none of those examples are about immigration.

There's a huge drug problem on Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia, but the people involved are overwhelmingly US-born. There's gang-violence on the South Shore of Chicago, but they are also overwhelmingly US-born. Skinhead gangs are overwhelmingly white US-born Americans.

Ah, your catching on. Demographic shifts sometimes overlap with immigration from outside the US, but that's only a piece of it. That's part of the reason I don't think that "demographic shifts" is a very helpful term. And these examples certainly illustrate why it's simplistic and dismissive to just wave away people's concerns by saying it's nothing to be afraid of.

[Bootstrap]

That's part of the reason I don't think that "demographic shifts" is a very helpful term.

We all seem to agree on that.

And these examples certainly illustrate why it's simplistic and dismissive to just wave away people's concerns by saying it's nothing to be afraid of.

But as crime keeps going down, fear of crime keeps going up. See this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=269042#p269042

I do think government should take crime seriously. But I don't think immigration is causing new waves of crime in the US. The data is quite clear on that. I think politicians sometimes like to play on our fears and fan them into flames.

People's fears are not an accurate measure of reality - and they can turn quite ugly when directed toward other people. I think we can all agree that our feelings are not the measure of truth ... and that the world out there really wants to manipulate our feelings to gain our loyalty.

What do Kingdom of God peacemakers do in that kind of environment?