Israel strikes Iran

[Szdfan]

TDS is on full display.

Nah. Just push back against logical incoherence, bad faith arguments and redefining violent actions as non-violent in order to maintain the narrative fiction that Trump is a “peace president.”

If you have to resort to gaslight opponents by calling them “deranged,” then I think it’s an obvious sign that the argument doesn’t have a lot of merit.

[temporal1]

i disagree with all of this, without interest in breaking it down. these are your accusatory opinions, not fact.

I think this says a lot more about your argument than you realize. I think you won’t defend it because it’s logically incoherent. You’ve railed against US military action overseas for years but suddenly, when Trump bombs Iran, violence is no longer violence and war is no longer war.

It’s not hard to notice this shift even if you don’t acknowledge it.

It’s my understanding, on this forum, deciding what others are thinking and saying is not ok.
No matter how often such judgments are allowed to repeat.

i’ve tried to explain MY thoughts on this topic, several times, each time MY thoughts are deemed invalid, inconsistent, etc.
Now i “don’t realize what i’m thinking”. i don’t appreciate it. gaslighting, indeed.

i disagree with your assessments, and have stated i’m not interested in getting into the weeds wrt YOUR OPINIONS.
you are free to have YOUR opinions.

i’ve never referred to Trump as a peace president, peacenik, etc. That’s more unappreciated projection.

It’s not in my power to get anyone to read-listen. That’s an individual choice. Enjoy.

[R7ehr]

TDS is on full display.

Nah. Just push back against logical incoherence, bad faith arguments and redefining violent actions as non-violent in order to maintain the narrative fiction that Trump is a “peace president.”

If you have to resort to gaslight opponents by calling them “deranged,” then I think it’s an obvious sign that the argument doesn’t have a lot of merit.

Deranged? I’ve heard that TDS is Trump Devotion Syndrome.

[temporal1]

i largely agree with DanZ, Robert, R7ehr, and others on this topic.

.. We’ll see.
If my guess is in the ballpark, for everyone’s sake, i pray for success.

DanZ summed it up years ago. (i’ll try to locate his words.)

I’ve said this before- but I think his aggressive and unpredictable negotiating style may advantage him with dictators and autocrats - like Kim Jong Un, over and against more diplomatic and placating presidents like Obama.

^^Not to mention Neocons and their pet protracted and failng wars. $$$$

Related:
2018 / Military spending
viewtopic.php?t=1259

Not the ceasefire. The air strikes.

I am undecided on the air strikes too. I am not surprised. Seems like this has been coming for a long time. I am not surprised Trump acted. Worldly kingdoms make worldly decisions.

In the Middle East, might makes right. It will be perceived differently than we will.

I also hear more countries may be signing onto the Abraham Accords. This is how long term peace will be found there.

i fail to see how this is not evident. i quote them often enough!

[Szdfan]

i disagree with all of this, without interest in breaking it down. these are your accusatory opinions, not fact.

I think this says a lot more about your argument than you realize. I think you won’t defend it because it’s logically incoherent. You’ve railed against US military action overseas for years but suddenly, when Trump bombs Iran, violence is no longer violence and war is no longer war.

It’s not hard to notice this shift even if you don’t acknowledge it.

It’s my understanding, on this forum, deciding what others are thinking and saying is not ok.
No matter how often such judgments are allowed to repeat.

i’ve tried to explain MY thoughts on this topic, several times, each time MY thoughts are deemed invalid, inconsistent, etc.
Now i “don’t realize what i’m thinking”. i don’t appreciate it.

i disagree with your assessments, and have stated i’m not interested in getting into the weeds wrt YOUR OPINIONS.
you are free to have YOUR opinions.

i’ve never referred to Trump as a peace president, peacenik, etc. That’s more unappreciated projection.

It’s not in my power to get anyone to read-listen. That’s an individual choice. Enjoy.

It’s a web forum…we argue here all the time about whether people’s arguments are valid or not. You frequently accuse others of TDS, which is literally deciding what other people think. You do this all the time. If you’re allowed to call out TDS, then I think I’m also allowed to call out incoherence and bad faith arguments.

You have every right to express your opinion. I have every right to respond and to argue with you. You also have every right to not engage. But I also have a right to argue back.

If we are allowed to disagree with each other, then so is evaluating whether arguments hold up.

[Szdfan]

TDS is on full display.

Nah. Just push back against logical incoherence, bad faith arguments and redefining violent actions as non-violent in order to maintain the narrative fiction that Trump is a “peace president.”

If you have to resort to gaslight opponents by calling them “deranged,” then I think it’s an obvious sign that the argument doesn’t have a lot of merit.

Deranged? I’ve heard that TDS is Trump Devotion Syndrome.

Oh…I didn’t realized I was being accused of devotion to Trump. I guess I’ll have to go and overthink all of my life choices and write long, terrible poetry and choreograph interpretive dances about my existential anguish.

[temporal1]

It’s a web forum…we argue here all the time about whether people’s arguments are valid or not. You frequently accuse others of TDS, which is literally deciding what other people think. You do this all the time. If you’re allowed to call out TDS, then I think I’m also allowed to call out incoherence and bad faith arguments.

You have every right to express your opinion. I have every right to respond and to argue with you. You also have every right to not engage. But I also have a right to argue back.

If we are allowed to disagree with each other, then so is evaluating whether arguments hold up.

i try to frame my references to TDS in non-personal ways, viewtopic.php?t=8035
i’m interested in how this awful 2016-era failed political strategy is evolving, devolving. i hope remedies are found. it has led to destruction and violence. i believe it developed legs after hillary refused to accept 2016 election results. angry old woman.

TDS remains a hot button topic, over reactions often happen.

i agree it’s a web forum with lively discussion.
members are regularly guided away from personal attacks, “you” statements, etc., i’m never sure where the margins are.
i try to respect boundaries without contest. i appreciate direction.

do you recognize gaslighting in your words to me?
i’m not an expert on gaslighting. i don’t pretend to be. i don’t want to be!

in my life, you’ve used the word more than anyone i know, on or off forum. not a nice word at all.

[Szdfan]

It’s a web forum…we argue here all the time about whether people’s arguments are valid or not. You frequently accuse others of TDS, which is literally deciding what other people think. You do this all the time. If you’re allowed to call out TDS, then I think I’m also allowed to call out incoherence and bad faith arguments.

You have every right to express your opinion. I have every right to respond and to argue with you. You also have every right to not engage. But I also have a right to argue back.

If we are allowed to disagree with each other, then so is evaluating whether arguments hold up.

i try to frame my references to TDS in non-personal ways, viewtopic.php?t=8035
i’m interested in how this awful 2016-era failed political strategy is evolving, devolving. i hope remedies are found. it has led to destruction and violence. i believe it developed legs after hillary refused to accept 2016 election results. angry old woman.

TDS remains a hot button topic, over reactions often happen.

i agree it’s a web forum with lively discussion.
members are regularly guided away from personal attacks, “you” statements, etc., i’m never sure where the margins are.
i try to respect boundaries without contest. i appreciate direction.

do you recognize gaslighting in your words to me?
i’m not an expert on gaslighting. i don’t pretend to be. i don’t want to be!

in my life, you’ve used the word more than anyone i know, on or off forum. not a nice word at all.

I'm going to respond with a couple of definitions:

1. Gaslighting

https://www.mga.edu/news/2023/04/what-i ... d%20target.

The modern definition of gaslighting is a psychological manipulation technique in which a person tries to convince someone that their reality is untrue.

2. Trump Derangement Syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_der ... t_syndrome

Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) is a pejorative term used to describe negative reactions to U.S. President Donald Trump that are perceived to be irrational and to have little regard for Trump's actual policy positions. The term has mainly been used by Trump supporters to discredit criticism of him, as a way of reframing the discussion by suggesting that his opponents are incapable of accurately perceiving the world.

Why is TDS a form of gaslighting?
TDS is a form of gaslighting because it dismisses someone's argument not on the basis or merit of the argument, but by attacking the person's perception or understanding of reality.

In other words, we who oppose Trump don't oppose him because we have factual, moral, policy or ideological objections, we oppose him because we're crazy. We're hysterical. We're deranged.

TDS isn’t a rebuttal. It’s a refusal to engage in honest argument. It claims, "You only believe this because you’re mentally broken." That’s not discussion or argument. That's a psychological tactic and the very definition of gaslighting.

[temporal1]

1) i believe you gaslight me.
2) i believe TDS can be a form of gaslighting, but not always.
If TDS is always interpreted as gaslighting, i suspect it’s emotion-driven.

- - - - - - -

For years after i was randomly+physically attacked, i had an extraordinary fear of men.
Eventually, i got over it. One day i decided to let go of it. Thankfully. It was a heavy burden.
A burden on me that didn’t phase my attacker one bit. He was not found.

The law of the instrument
The phrase "to a hammer, everything is a nail" refers to a cognitive bias known as the law of the instrument, which suggests that individuals tend to rely on familiar tools or methods to solve problems, regardless of their appropriateness. This concept was popularized by Abraham Maslow, who stated, "it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail". Essentially, it highlights how limited perspectives can hinder effective problem-solving.

Someone may have hurt you. It wasn’t me.

[Szdfan]

1) i believe you gaslight me.
2) i believe TDS can be a form of gaslighting, but not always.
If TDS is always interpreted as gaslighting, i suspect it’s emotion-driven.

- - - - - - -

For years after i was randomly+physically attacked, i had an extraordinary fear of men.
Eventually, i got over it. One day i decided to let go of it. Thankfully. It was a heavy burden.
A burden on me that didn’t phase my attacker one bit. He was not found.

The law of the instrument
The phrase "to a hammer, everything is a nail" refers to a cognitive bias known as the law of the instrument, which suggests that individuals tend to rely on familiar tools or methods to solve problems, regardless of their appropriateness. This concept was popularized by Abraham Maslow, who stated, "it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail". Essentially, it highlights how limited perspectives can hinder effective problem-solving.

Someone may have hurt you. It wasn’t me.

I’m sorry for what happened to you, but I don’t believe that disagreeing with you is abuse. Whether or not your argument holds up isn’t about me or anything that’s happened to me. If you think I’m wrong, then make that case. If not, please stop trying to make this about me.