Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists

[Ken]

I'm wrestling a bit with whether categories like "Mainline" should be updated/redefined or whether new categories should be added for groups that accept things they would not have accepted at one point.

Mainline used to mean a certain thing in the late 1900's. It seems to me that this should/could stick with the same definition and we simply add new terms for all the movements that have started since. (i.e. the three mainline groups that you identified who accept LGBTQ)

On the other hand, if sociologists are going to keep using "Mainline" to refer to certain Protestant denominations who keep changing, then it makes sense from a sociological perspective to use their terms and create new categories for the groups who are trying to preserve what mainliners stood for in the last half of the 20th century.  

I always pictured “mainline” to mean the sort of church the respectable people of town would attend—the doctors and businessmen and such. The sort that won’t ruffle the feathers of respectable society, whatever that means for its constituents. I think that’s still broadly true. “Conservative” mainliners in small towns fit in well with respectable opinion in their town. Even the more outlandish stories you hear about in mainline churches aren’t all that outlandish when you consider that they fit in well with, say, corporate sponsorship of the pride parade that goes past their doors.

“Establishment” might be a better term than Mainline. In every society or town there are “in” groups and “out” groups and mainline churches are the “in” group.

[Ernie]

“Establishment” might be a better term than Mainline. In every society or town there are “in” groups and “out” groups and mainline churches are the “in” group.

I'm not getting this. Can you say more? Depending on the society or town, some will appreciate mainliners, and some will appreciate neo-Evangelicals, correct?

[JohnH]

I always pictured “mainline” to mean the sort of church the respectable people of town would attend—the doctors and businessmen and such. The sort that won’t ruffle the feathers of respectable society, whatever that means for its constituents. I think that’s still broadly true. “Conservative” mainliners in small towns fit in well with respectable opinion in their town. Even the more outlandish stories you hear about in mainline churches aren’t all that outlandish when you consider that they fit in well with, say, corporate sponsorship of the pride parade that goes past their doors.

Mainline Protestant has a specific meaning. The Wikipedia article explains it well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant

Mainline Protestant churches don't really meet your above definition.

[Ken]

“Establishment” might be a better term than Mainline. In every society or town there are “in” groups and “out” groups and mainline churches are the “in” group.

I'm not getting this. Can you say more? Depending on the society or town, some will appreciate mainliners, and some will appreciate neo-Evangelicals, correct?

In any typical American town or city there is a core of movers and shakers and influential people who are the doctors and lawyers and prominent business types. They will mostly attend mainline churches that also hold prominent positions in the town with big beautiful church buildings on prominent streets.

That would have been much more the case 100 years ago when the term was coined.

This has probably also been more true in the north. But even in the south, the most prominent folks tended to be Methodists and Episcopals. For example, the most elite southern universities all have Methodist or Episcopal roots: SMU, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc.

[JohnH]

In any typical American town or city there is a core of movers and shakers and influential people who are the doctors and lawyers and prominent business types. They will mostly attend mainline churches that also hold prominent positions in the town with big beautiful church buildings on prominent streets.

That would have been much more the case 100 years ago when the term was coined.

This has probably also been more true in the north. But even in the south, the most prominent folks tended to be Methodists and Episcopals. For example, the most elite southern universities all have Methodist or Episcopal roots: SMU, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc.

I thought you told us that in places in Texas, everyone was a Baptist - and presumably not at ABCUSA churches.

Where I live, attendance at mainline Protestant churches has plummeted. They keep closing, and the only ones that aren't on life support have disaffiliated from the mainline Protestant denomination, so they aren't mainline anymore.

[Ken]

In any typical American town or city there is a core of movers and shakers and influential people who are the doctors and lawyers and prominent business types. They will mostly attend mainline churches that also hold prominent positions in the town with big beautiful church buildings on prominent streets.

That would have been much more the case 100 years ago when the term was coined.

This has probably also been more true in the north. But even in the south, the most prominent folks tended to be Methodists and Episcopals. For example, the most elite southern universities all have Methodist or Episcopal roots: SMU, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc.

I thought you told us that in places in Texas, everyone was a Baptist - and presumably not at ABCUSA churches.

Where I live, attendance at mainline Protestant churches has plummeted. They keep closing, and the only ones that aren't on life support have disaffiliated from the mainline Protestant denomination, so they aren't mainline anymore.

In Texas, Baptists would be the proletariat. Methodists would be the Bourgeoisie. Laura Bush, for example, is from an old established Texas family and is Methodist and the George Bush library is at Southern Methodist University which is located in the very richest "old money" part of Dallas.

A century ago, this country was more or less run by White Anglo Saxon Protestants (WASPS) and the Protestants the name is referring to would be the Mainline Protestant churches. Up until JFK, pretty much every US president came from a mainline Protestant denomination--mostly Episcopal and Presbyterian.

[JohnH]

The Episcopal Church isn't running anything except organizing hitting up Golden Corral after nursing-home bingo; their average age is now 65.

[Ken]

The Episcopal Church isn't running anything except organizing hitting up Golden Corral after nursing-home bingo; their average age is now 65.

Remind us again what denomination the National Cathedral in Washington DC is affiliated with and why that is the case. And which denomination has produced more presidents than any other.

[JohnH]

The last President was a Catholic. The last election involved two candidates, one of whom was baptized a Presbyterian but didn't attend, and isn't religious now, and one of whom is a Baptist. Going back to 2008, Barack Obama was part of a United Church of Christ church for about 20 years, but departed that church in 2008 and attended a Baptist church since then. You'd have to go to all the way back to Bush to find someone still actually attending a mainline Methodist church.

I think it's safe to say that it's been nearly 20 years since Episcopalians or Methodists can take any credit for producing Presidents.

[Ernie]

Here is a list of towns and cities where Grok thinks Evangelicals may have more influence than Mainliners. Again, the question is currently, not what was happening 50 or 100 years ago.

Tennessee
Nashville (Southern Baptist Convention headquarters, multiple megachurches)
Memphis (Large evangelical churches, high church attendance)
Knoxville
Chattanooga
Clarksville
Murfreesboro
Franklin
Jackson
Johnson City
Bartlett
Hendersonville
Kingsport
Collierville
Smyrna
Cleveland
Brentwood
Gallatin
Columbia
Germantown
Mount Juliet

Alabama
21. Birmingham (Multiple evangelical megachurches)
22. Montgomery
23. Huntsville
24. Mobile
25. Tuscaloosa
26. Hoover
27. Dothan
28. Auburn
29. Decatur
30. Madison
31. Florence
32. Gadsden
33. Vestavia Hills
34. Prattville
35. Phenix City
36. Alabaster
37. Bessemer
38. Enterprise
39. Opelika
40. Homewood

Kentucky
41. Louisville (Southern Baptist Theological Seminary)
42. Lexington (Lexington Theological Seminary, evangelical presence)
43. Bowling Green
44. Owensboro
45. Covington
46. Hopkinsville
47. Richmond
48. Florence
49. Georgetown
50. Elizabethtown
51. Nicholasville
52. Henderson
53. Frankfort
54. Jeffersontown
55. Paducah
56. Radcliff
57. Ashland
58. Madisonville
59. Murray
60. Erlanger

Oklahoma
61. Oklahoma City (Large evangelical congregations)
62. Tulsa (Oral Roberts University, evangelical hub)
63. Norman
64. Broken Arrow
65. Edmond
66. Lawton
67. Moore
68. Midwest City
69. Enid
70. Stillwater
71. Muskogee
72. Bartlesville
73. Owasso
74. Shawnee
75. Yukon
76. Ardmore
77. Ponca City
78. Duncan
79. Del City
80. Sapulpa

Arkansas
81. Little Rock
82. Fort Smith
83. Fayetteville
84. Springdale
85. Jonesboro
86. North Little Rock
87. Conway
88. Rogers
89. Pine Bluff
90. Bentonville
91. Hot Springs
92. Benton
93. Texarkana
94. Sherwood
95. Jacksonville
96. Russellville
97. Bella Vista
98. Paragould
99. Cabot
100. Searcy

Mississippi
101. Jackson
102. Gulfport
103. Southaven
104. Biloxi
105. Hattiesburg
106. Olive Branch
107. Tupelo
108. Meridian
109. Greenville
110. Madison
111. Clinton
112. Pearl
113. Horn Lake
114. Oxford
115. Brandon
116. Starkville
117. Ridgeland
118. Columbus
119. Vicksburg
120. Pascagoula

Georgia
121. Atlanta (Megachurches like North Point Community Church)
122. Augusta
123. Columbus
124. Macon
125. Savannah
126. Athens
127. Sandy Springs
128. Roswell
129. Warner Robins
130. Johns Creek
131. Albany
132. Alpharetta
133. Marietta
134. Smryna
135. Valdosta
136. Dunwoody
137. Peachtree Corners
138. Brookhaven
139. Mableton
140. Gainesville

South Carolina
141. Charleston
142. Columbia
143. North Charleston
144. Mount Pleasant
145. Rock Hill
146. Greenville
147. Summerville
148. Goose Creek
149. Hilton Head Island
150. Sumter
151. Florence
152. Spartanburg
153. Myrtle Beach
154. Aiken
155. Greer
156. Anderson
157. Mauldin
158. Simpsonville
159. Easley
160. Greenwood

North Carolina
161. Charlotte (Evangelical megachurches)
162. Raleigh
163. Greensboro
164. Durham
165. Winston-Salem
166. Fayetteville
167. Cary
168. Wilmington
169. High Point
170. Greenville
171. Asheville
172. Concord
173. Gastonia
174. Jacksonville
175. Chapel Hill
176. Burlington
177. Rocky Mount
178. Huntersville
179. Kannapolis
180. Apex

Texas
181. Houston (Lakewood Church, Joel Osteen)
182. San Antonio
183. Dallas
184. Austin
185. Fort Worth
186. El Paso
187. Arlington
188. Corpus Christi
189. Plano
190. Laredo
191. Lubbock
192. Garland
193. Irving
194. Frisco
195. Amarillo
196. McKinney
197. Grand Prairie
198. Brownsville
199. Killeen
200. Pasadena

Other States with Notable Evangelical Presence
201. Kansas City, MO
202. St. Louis, MO
203. Springfield, MO
204. Columbia, MO
205. Independence, MO
206. Lee’s Summit, MO
207. O’Fallon, MO
208. St. Joseph, MO
209. Indianapolis, IN
210. Fort Wayne, IN
211. Evansville, IN
212. South Bend, IN
213. Carmel, IN
214. Fishers, IN
215. Bloomington, IN
216. Jacksonville, FL
217. Miami, FL
218. Tampa, FL
219. Orlando, FL
220. St. Petersburg, FL
221. Virginia Beach, VA
222. Chesapeake, VA
223. Norfolk, VA
224. Richmond, VA
225. Newport News, VA
226. Baton Rouge, LA
227. Shreveport, LA
228. Lafayette, LA
229. Lake Charles, LA
230. Kenner, LA

Additional Cities (Extrapolated)
To approach 300, I’ll include smaller cities in evangelical-strong states, where state-level data suggests evangelical dominance. These are less certain but plausible based on regional trends.
231. Clarksville, TN
232. Bristol, TN
233. Morristown, TN
234. Anniston, AL
235. Cullman, AL
236. Selma, AL
237. Somerset, KY
238. London, KY
239. Corbin, KY
240. Muskogee, OK
241. Tahlequah, OK
242. Ada, OK
243. Siloam Springs, AR
244. Harrison, AR
245. Mountain Home, AR
246. Laurel, MS
247. Natchez, MS
248. Brookhaven, MS
249. Dalton, GA
250. Rome, GA
251. Cartersville, GA
252. North Augusta, SC
253. Orangeburg, SC
254. Gaffney, SC
255. Wilson, NC
256. Goldsboro, NC
257. New Bern, NC
258. Denton, TX
259. McAllen, TX
260. Midland, TX
261. Springfield, IL
262. Peoria, IL
263. Rockford, IL
264. Joplin, MO
265. Jefferson City, MO
266. Cape Girardeau, MO
267. Muncie, IN
268. Anderson, IN
269. Kokomo, IN
270. Hialeah, FL
271. Port St. Lucie, FL
272. Pembroke Pines, FL
273. Roanoke, VA
274. Lynchburg, VA
275. Hampton, VA
276. Monroe, LA
277. Bossier City, LA
278. Alexandria, LA
279. Cleveland, MS
280. Corinth, MS
281. Dyersburg, TN
282. Athens, AL
283. Glasgow, KY
284. Claremore, OK
285. Van Buren, AR
286. Calhoun, GA
287. Laurens, SC
288. Lumberton, NC
289. Odessa, TX
290. Abilene, TX
291. Decatur, IL
292. St. Charles, MO
293. Terre Haute, IN
294. Coral Springs, FL
295. Danville, VA
296. Slidell, LA
297. McComb, MS
298. Dickson, TN
299. Florence, KY
300. Durant, OK