Anabaptist teaching on pride vs humility?

[barnhart]

JohnL started this thread asking for Anabaptist teaching on Pride and humility. He didn't ask for judgement of individuals, groups or organizations who are failing at humility.

[ken_sylvania]

I appreciate the various comments but I wonder if my original point came across. When I talk about Pride in conservative Mennonite churches it is a pride that does not manifest itself quite as openly as the bragging kind. It is more of a quiet but very strong pride.

An example would be I see men nominated for the lot that I have known well. And they are no,inated instead of other men who I think have much better qualities. Except for the fa,ily they are from. Or the nominated one’s wife is the daughter of a bishop. Not that talent or ability may not run in some families, but gosh it sure seems to runSTRONG in some LOL

Or after so and so did not get picked in the lot. Look who is asked to go “help” by moving to a new congregation that we all know in 2-3 years will need a minister ordination.

In various settings it seems less important WHAT is said in terms of gathering support than WHO says it.

The family pride and confidence is truly astounding

What you are describing is primarily an Eastern thing. If you polled the rest of conservative Mennonitedom, they'd probably agree there is a rather major pride problem in Eastern circles. I mean, this is the same institution that is widely believed to have had fraudulent nominations and fraudulent lots. I really do not understand how anyone can handle staying in that organization, but nonetheless, many do.

It is beyond absurd when one looks at a list of who has been ordained, who the bishops are, etc., and you just see the same last names over and over, and often the first names too. I really wonder how such people can truly feel they were "called". It would be more accurate to describe their leadership structure as a self-perpetuating board.

Anyway, the above problems are why things like Pilgrim exist.

I suppose it's a good thing you didn't have to put up with the leadership of the early church. Seems to me that more than 30% of the twelve apostles had a brother who was also an apostle.

[JohnH]

I suppose it's a good thing you didn't have to put up with the leadership of the early church. Seems to me that more than 30% of the twelve apostles had a brother who was also an apostle.

That's a lot more understandable.

Eastern makes a lot more sense to me when I just think of it as a family business.

[Grace]

I have to say, asan outsider I was perplexed by the focus on pride in Anabaptist circles when I first moved among them. I mean, how can these plain folks have pride issues. Nor am I suggesting I did not feel it could exist among worldly folks. But why such an emphasis.

It will probably be controversial that after some time, Indo think it is 8ndeed a bigger issue in Anabaptist circles. Oh, not the pride you see in the world of “ I went to Harvard” or “I made Vice President “ or “my kid is captain of the football team”.

Ironically I do think many in these circles in fact miss their biggest pride issues. Never seen such family pride, or pride over ministerial eelatu8nships, etc.

Not sure about the spelling of that last word. But I agree. I have seen some pride amongst some conservative Anabaptists. And I have seen so much pride about our youth. We had a preacher/teacher teach at our summer Bible School, (also a pastor in a sister church) who was involved in IGO. He sure bragged about the IGO Bible School and its young people. At one point he said that the IGO students are the "cream of the crop". I am sorry but I have seen many commendable young people who DIDN'T attend IGO. Young people who didn't travel halfway around the world but made a difference here stateside and in their local communities.

https://www.igoasia.org/

Since you've mentioned this preacher multiple times and made little effort to conceal his identity I guess I'll give my 3 cents.
I think sometimes how people come across and who they really are, is not the same. I would suggest a little more grace.
This individual is a well respected man among his peers. At least I haven't heard anything different. Although at times I did think he came across as cocky, I wasn't offended by it. I think it's just his style.
As Igo alumni, the students there are as human as anyone. I also overheard a former student refer to them as "cream of the crop".
Not all students attend Igo for the same reason. Some indeed have a life of foreign ministry in mind. Others just go for the experience ect.
As I have watched the journey of former students, I see that indeed some are the "cream of the crop". Others, sadly, have lost their way.
Without data to back it up, I would surmise on average Igo doesn't produce more godly or zealous people than the average conservative church.
However, it is very beneficial for those that have an interest in particular for foreign missions.

Many times, leaders set the tone for an institution/church/school culture. And if the leaders promote a culture of pride, their followers will follow. In this instance if young vulnerable students are told they are "the cream of the crop", is it any wonder students might buy into that premise. And I find that sad.

As for the thread topic, I think that the teaching on pride and humility is someone lacking in many conservative Anabaptist churches. And I think the reason it is lacking, is because often there isn't one thing specifically, that can be pointed out. Pride can be a church cultural thing. I had a dear old friend tell me once, that pride is like bad breath, one doesn't really know they have it, but everyone else that gets close, knows you have it.

I know of a preacher that was an exemplary preacher, teacher, etc. and who at times refused to stand at the back of the church to be greeted. The reason was that he felt too much praise was given to him and not to the Lord for his gift. To me that was humility.