Mennonite Measles in Texas

[JohnH]

Faith has absolutely nothing to do with it. And to suggest that it does belies an ignorance in how science even works.

OK, Ken. Sometimes science changes and we learn new things. Would you ever be open to learning that some vaccines might be harmful? And how would a scientist ever hope to have a career researching this?

Scientists are constantly researching every aspect of infectious diseases, vaccines, and other treatments including possible side effects. I'm not sure why you have embedded yourself deep down into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole of thinking that isn't the case.

It was impossible for any scientists to document risks of the COVID vaccine without losing their jobs.

If you can recall, people like me were threatened with losing our jobs and not with allowed to work if we wouldn’t take the COVID vaccine. That’s not “science”. That’s tyranny. And it almost happened.

Do you think people should be allowed to make their own medical choices?

The “science” is often wrong. In the 1950s, we were told smoking is good for you. Then pregnant women were sold thalidomide and told it’s safe. Those who tried to speak up about it were dismissed as crazy or conspiracy theorists. More recently, the nonsense of low-fat, high-sugar diets was promoted by the government as “healthy”. The net effect of all this nonsense was an epidemic of lung cancer, deformed babies, and an obesity crisis.

[Ken]

It was impossible for any scientists to document risks of the COVID vaccine without losing their jobs.

Nonsense. There were thousands of scientists around the world engaged in vaccine research including researching and tracking possible side effects of the vaccine, as well as the efficacy and side effects of other treatments.

At the same time there were also charlatans deliberately purveying false information in bad faith for profit. They are honestly the worst kind of fraudsters imaginable. Right up there with people who sell time shares and and run Nigerian money transfer scams. And none of them were engaged in any sort of legitimate science. Just preying on desperate people for profit and engaging in fraud on a global scale.

[randomguy]

Reading up on how the Diptheria vaccine was developed would give most people pause about how the science of all this developed and would confuse many on exactly how all these vaccines work.

For one the diphtheria doesn't make it so the body fends off the diphtheria bacterium it just helps us tolerate the toxins the bacteria produce, or learn to neutralize the toxins, not the actual pathogen. That doesn't match the story we have in our heads. And it's not a one-and-done thing but a series and clearly wouldn't stop transmission.

Now the way adjuvants happened was they found when they gave a horse aluminum and the diptheria infection they got more production in whatever they were taking from the blood of the horse and using as serum. Eventually, others who were trying to do a more conventional vaccine, not a serum, decided to mix aluminum in with the weakened toxin they had and they finally got the kind of reaction they wanted from the patient. Then for a while they mixed the two. Serum and vaccine. Not exactly the clean lab coat version of science we carry in our heads but it was done like 100 years ago to their credit. And they were dealing with a horrific disease without many other options.

Another confusing aspect of the childhood vaccination schedule is newborns don't really have a fully up-and-running immune system out of the gate. That is why they rely on nature's OG vaccine, breast milk. so then the idea of exercising this undeveloped immune system with variations of weakened pathogens a wee bit premature? Like having an 8-year-old weight lift.

Back to the ideal here. A simulation of an infection that permanently adjusts the immune system to fight the disease going forward. That is a Goldilocks-type deal where the simulation has to be less dangerous than the disease itself but strong enough to make an impression. The response it teaches the body has to match some future version of the disease and the head start it gives over those unvaccinated has to be enough to make up for the fact the response may not be as tailored to this exact instance of the pathogen. That's a big ask. Those who claim they have a treatment that universally upgrades an immune system that has evolved over millions of years and/or was created by God, would have to have a ton of evidence with trials run against true placebos. They don't. They compare the vaccines against other vaccines. With mumps, developed in chicken eggs with a sample taken by Hillman's daughter, they simply observed one children's hospital in Philly for a year I believe, not like a real RCT.

Now if upon increasing the amount of these immune system upgrades people noticed there were more and more chronic issues involving the immune system dysfunctioning? I think there'd be some work to do. If I put out new code into a complex software system and it slows down you bet I'm on the hook for what is going on. And I better have a slew of unit tests and system-wide tests etc. And I better be prepared to roll back until I figure out what happened. I think we're at that juncture here with the Childhood schedule. Thats how I feel about it.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Reading up on how the Diptheria vaccine was developed would give most people pause about how the science of all this developed and would confuse many on exactly how all these vaccines work.

For one the diphtheria doesn't make it so the body fends off the diphtheria bacterium it just helps us tolerate the toxins the bacteria produce, or learn to neutralize the toxins, not the actual pathogen. That doesn't match the story we have in our heads. And it's not a one-and-done thing but a series and clearly wouldn't stop transmission.

Now the way adjuvants happened was they found when they gave a horse aluminum and the diptheria infection they got more production in whatever they were taking from the blood of the horse and using as serum. Eventually, others who were trying to do a more conventional vaccine, not a serum, decided to mix aluminum in with the weakened toxin they had and they finally got the kind of reaction they wanted from the patient. Then for a while they mixed the two. Serum and vaccine. Not exactly the clean lab coat version of science we carry in our heads but it was done like 100 years ago to their credit. And they were dealing with a horrific disease without many other options.

Another confusing aspect of the childhood vaccination schedule is newborns don't really have a fully up-and-running immune system out of the gate. That is why they rely on nature's OG vaccine, breast milk. so then the idea of exercising this undeveloped immune system with variations of weakened pathogens a wee bit premature? Like having an 8-year-old weight lift.

Back to the ideal here. A simulation of an infection that permanently adjusts the immune system to fight the disease going forward. That is a Goldilocks-type deal where the simulation has to be less dangerous than the disease itself but strong enough to make an impression. The response it teaches the body has to match some future version of the disease and the head start it gives over those unvaccinated has to be enough to make up for the fact the response may not be as tailored to this exact instance of the pathogen. That's a big ask. Those who claim they have a treatment that universally upgrades an immune system that has evolved over millions of years and/or was created by God, would have to have a ton of evidence with trials run against true placebos. They don't. They compare the vaccines against other vaccines. With mumps, developed in chicken eggs with a sample taken by Hillman's daughter, they simply observed one children's hospital in Philly for a year I believe, not like a real RCT.

Now if upon increasing the amount of these immune system upgrades people noticed there were more and more chronic issues involving the immune system dysfunctioning? I think there'd be some work to do. If I put out new code into a complex software system and it slows down you bet I'm on the hook for what is going on. And I better have a slew of unit tests and system-wide tests etc. And I better be prepared to roll back until I figure out what happened. I think we're at that juncture here with the Childhood schedule. Thats how I feel about it.

Feelings are fine, Science and Medicine operate off of evidence. The body is not a computer, it can do two things at once.

When is the last time you have heard of people dieing of Diphtheria ? I would have had two uncles, except they died of Diphtheria.

[Ken]

When is the last time you have heard of people dying of Diphtheria ? I would have had two uncles, except they died of Diphtheria.

It couldn't have anything at all to do with this....

[JohnH]

As randomguy explained in detail, early vaccines were quite a bit of trial and error (much like the smallpox vaccine), not the "precise science" that is marketed today as propaganda for newer vaccines.

Incidentally, the TDAP vaccine is one I do not have a quarrel with, although I would prefer it if it weren't a combination. There isn't a compelling reason to take multiple vaccines at once, and generally speaking combinations have only been researched and tested in their single formulations. The TDAP vaccines are still available that don't use stem cells, one of the very few left.

At the doctor's office recently one of the other patients wanted the HPV vaccine. They checked their vaccine fridge, but all they had was a combination flu plus HPV. What an utterly bizarre combination... and are we supposed to believe that the combination has received the same thorough amount of testing for effectiveness and safety that the individual seasonal flu shot and Gardasil received?

[Judas Maccabeus]

When is the last time you have heard of people dying of Diphtheria ? I would have had two uncles, except they died of Diphtheria.

It couldn't have anything at all to do with this....

Yup, would have been around 1920. Both brothers died at the same time. My infant mother was sent out to a farm, so she said.

[Judas Maccabeus]

As randomguy explained in detail, early vaccines were quite a bit of trial and error (much like the smallpox vaccine), not the "precise science" that is marketed today as propaganda for newer vaccines.

Incidentally, the TDAP vaccine is one I do not have a quarrel with, although I would prefer it if it weren't a combination. There isn't a compelling reason to take multiple vaccines at once, and generally speaking combinations have only been researched and tested in their single formulations. The TDAP vaccines are still available that don't use stem cells, one of the very few left.

At the doctor's office recently one of the other patients wanted the HPV vaccine. They checked their vaccine fridge, but all they had was a combination flu plus HPV. What an utterly bizarre combination... and are we supposed to believe that the combination has received the same thorough amount of testing for effectiveness and safety that the individual seasonal flu shot and Gardasil received?

You have been misinformed. Such a combination does not exist, is not licensed. Wife who is a public health nurse never heard of such a thing either. Whoever is giving you this stuff is off the wall, or as we say here, talking out the side of their face.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Then pregnant women were sold thalidomide and told it’s safe. Those who tried to speak up about it were dismissed as crazy or conspiracy theorists. More recently, the nonsense of low-fat, high-sugar diets was promoted by the government as “healthy”. The net effect of all this nonsense was an epidemic of lung cancer, deformed babies, and an obesity crisis.

Just so you know, thalidomide was never licensed in the United States due to the effort of a courageous government scientist who refused to license it before the manufacturer provided the requisite safety information. What got loose in the US did so because it was diverted from a clinical trial. It should not have been. She resisted drug company pressure, and refused to sign it off.

for the record, I have difficulty being in the room with a drug rep. When I was working, my policy was I do not talk to them.

[JohnH]

You have been misinformed. Such a combination does not exist, is not licensed. Wife who is a public health nurse never heard of such a thing either.

I was quite surprised as well to hear such a combination existed.

Whoever is giving you this stuff is off the wall, or as we say here, talking out the side of their face.

I don't think the Cleveland Clinic is off the wall.

It is possible I was hallucinating the entire appointment, but that seems unlikely.