Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Soloist]

The war is mostly a ground war, though.

Only if you ignore the heavy use of drones.

Drones are eyes in the sky, Deployable explosives, Suppression fire weapons, Suicide bombs… Their size, of course, differs substantially. The ones I saw that they are mass producing as suicide bombs were just a bit bigger than a sea chest.

[JohnH]

The war is mostly a ground war, though.

Only if you ignore the heavy use of drones.

Drones are eyes in the sky, Deployable explosives, Suppression fire weapons, Suicide bombs… Their size, of course, differs substantially. The ones I saw that they are mass producing as suicide bombs were just a bit bigger than a sea chest.

That’s true - deme warfare is an entirely new frontier. Conventional Air Force or air defense aren’t really relevant to drones.

One effect of drone war has been to basically make trench warfare come back - including the “stalemate” where neither side
Really moves. Much like WWI.

[Thomas_muntzer]

All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.



Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.

But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.

Yes exactly these guys are like the ones who cherish ond the weak guy to fight in the bar they are no real friends

[Thomas_muntzer]

I don't know if slow walking the military equipment was actually a terrible strategy. In hindsight it looks bad - and perhaps it was. But wars and international diplomacy is opaque.
In the first year and a half or so, there was serious concern about Russia using nukes, attacking other countries, etc. And if the West had jumped in with both feet early on, like people now think would have been effective, we have no idea how Russia would have responded. The idea that the West could have more fully supported Ukraine with all that equipment out the gate, and think that Russia would have simply played the hand that they did play, seems highly unlikely. Y
You can't go back in time and change one hand, and expect the opponent to not change accordingly as well. The West dribbled out more powerful arms, in such an incremental fashion that it was difficult for Russia to go into full berserker mode.

If that's the case better use diplomacy and give russia what they were asking. Ukraine not joining into NATO

[Ernie]

If a country doesn't want to contribute weapons to be used against other human beings, I admire them for this. But from a kingdoms of this world perspective, it seems like if there was a goal of depleting Russia's arsenal's and decreasing Russia's willingness to conquer and annex territory, allies of Ukraine could have focused on air defenses the last three years. (saving lives rather than taking lives)

I think the primary issue is there’s been a status quo agreement. If NATO declares a no fly zone or if the US declares a no fly zone, are you going to cripple Ukraine’s ability to wage war on Russia? Are you prepared to have NATO planes fire on Russian planes?
Likewise, in Syria, what if Russia declared a no fly zone are they prepared to fire on NATO planes or American planes? Maybe this is overly simplistic, but you don’t do something unless you’re prepared for the enemies counter.
This is why America and others have sort of tiptoed around direct intervention, as well as it not actually fitting their overall agenda.
Right now, if the air was declared off limits, it would effectively result in US and NATO war planes having to try to shoot down multiple missiles, likely unsuccessfully, and Ukraine get upset that they couldn’t launch their drones into Russia or have it an obvious war action against Russia, which would risk a larger scale conflict.

It is possible to supply Ukraine with air defenses without declaring a no fly zone. The West has been supplying some, but not enough to keep Ukranian civilians safe. The West seemed more focused on providing ammunition for Ukraine to fight Russia. As was noted earlier, they provided almost enough to keep Ukraine from losing further territory, but not enough to gain significant territory back. I'm not saying it would be a good thing to give them more ammunition for political or two-kingdom perspective. Just stating what happened.

The first chart on this page shows how many thousands of Ukranian civilians have been killed by remote attacks, including both missiles and drones.
From a this world perspective, it seems that the West could have cared more about civilians.

https://acleddata.com/2025/02/21/bombin ... n-ukraine/

[Southerner]

If a country doesn't want to contribute weapons to be used against other human beings, I admire them for this. But from a kingdoms of this world perspective, it seems like if there was a goal of depleting Russia's arsenal's and decreasing Russia's willingness to conquer and annex territory, allies of Ukraine could have focused on air defenses the last three years. (saving lives rather than taking lives)

I think the primary issue is there’s been a status quo agreement. If NATO declares a no fly zone or if the US declares a no fly zone, are you going to cripple Ukraine’s ability to wage war on Russia? Are you prepared to have NATO planes fire on Russian planes?
Likewise, in Syria, what if Russia declared a no fly zone are they prepared to fire on NATO planes or American planes? Maybe this is overly simplistic, but you don’t do something unless you’re prepared for the enemies counter.
This is why America and others have sort of tiptoed around direct intervention, as well as it not actually fitting their overall agenda.
Right now, if the air was declared off limits, it would effectively result in US and NATO war planes having to try to shoot down multiple missiles, likely unsuccessfully, and Ukraine get upset that they couldn’t launch their drones into Russia or have it an obvious war action against Russia, which would risk a larger scale conflict.

It is possible to supply Ukraine with air defenses without declaring a no fly zone. The West has been supplying some, but not enough to keep Ukranian civilians safe. The West seemed more focused on providing ammunition for Ukraine to fight Russia. As was noted earlier, they provided almost enough to keep Ukraine from losing further territory, but not enough to gain significant territory back. I'm not saying it would be a good thing to give them more ammunition for political or two-kingdom perspective. Just stating what happened.

The first chart on this page shows how many thousands of Ukranian civilians have been killed by remote attacks, including both missiles and drones.
From a this world perspective, it seems that the West could have cared more about civilians.

https://acleddata.com/2025/02/21/bombin ... n-ukraine/

So Israel has the Iron Dome and I have often wondered why Ukraine doesn't have something similar. Can someone please explain this? And did Trump reference something similar to the Iron Dome in his speech to Congress?

[Soloist]

It is possible to supply Ukraine with air defenses without declaring a no fly zone. The West has been supplying some, but not enough to keep Ukranian civilians safe. The West seemed more focused on providing ammunition for Ukraine to fight Russia. As was noted earlier, they provided almost enough to keep Ukraine from losing further territory, but not enough to gain significant territory back. I'm not saying it would be a good thing to give them more ammunition for political or two-kingdom perspective. Just stating what happened.

The first chart on this page shows how many thousands of Ukranian civilians have been killed by remote attacks, including both missiles and drones.
From a this world perspective, it seems that the West could have cared more about civilians.

https://acleddata.com/2025/02/21/bombin ... n-ukraine/

I don’t think you understand is how difficult that is… when Israel was attacked, not that long back, there were multiple nations that were involved in defending their land and some missiles still got through.
Using air defense against drones is lagging way behind technology right now what are you going to do? fire a very expensive patriot missile at a $200 drone?
Honestly, the most effective weapon will be the old style, Flack batteries, and those have other problems with them, particularly where the flack falls. Defending civilian areas against mass aerial assault is very difficult.
If someone was to attack us with mass drone warfare, we would take serious losses aside from our ships. Our naval vessels are actually equipped with weapons that can counter these things quite effectively. The rest of our military and shore commands do not have those things.
It’s easy to use that sort of weapon on the ocean when you don’t have to worry about anybody else.

[JohnH]

So Israel has the Iron Dome and I have often wondered why Ukraine doesn't have something similar. Can someone please explain this? And did Trump reference something similar to the Iron Dome in his speech to Congress?

#1. Ukraine is a lot bigger than Israel.

#2. Russia has missiles such as hypersonic missiles that Iron Dome is completely ineffective against.

In short, Israel isn’t at war with Russia, and if they were, Iron Dome wouldn’t be of much use.

[Ken]

So Israel has the Iron Dome and I have often wondered why Ukraine doesn't have something similar. Can someone please explain this? And did Trump reference something similar to the Iron Dome in his speech to Congress?

#1. Ukraine is a lot bigger than Israel.

#2. Russia has missiles such as hypersonic missiles that Iron Dome is completely ineffective against.

In short, Israel isn’t at war with Russia, and if they were, Iron Dome wouldn’t be of much use.

Exactly right.

Iron dome protects against short-range rockets shot across the border. Not long range ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, or drones.

Ukraine does have Patriot batteries and lots of other modern air defense systems. But it is a big country with a very big front against Russia and Russia uses techniques like mass firings into single targets to try to overwhelm local air defenses.

And yes, if it was Russia and not Hamas/Hezbollah firing into Israel you can bet that the Iron Dome would be overwhelmed and inadequate too.

[Robert]