Southerner wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 7:18 am .. Trump didn't really laugh, his colleagues however did in the background after he said, "This will make great television."
Correct. i viewed again this morning. i intended to correct my words. Trump was not laughing, at all.
This meeting was a beyond-serious situation that should not have happened. Ukraine has the most to lose.
Z should have cancelled the SIGNING meeting when he decided he wanted more. He put everyone in a bad position.
His behavior was so bad that I sometimes wonder if he’a actually a Russian spy, or else if he just doesn’t want the war to ever end. He’s making many billions of dollars from endless war.
Lol, if you thinks Zelensky's behaviour was bad, you don't know what truly bad behavior looks like. Zelensky never raised his voice whereas Trump/ Vance did. On a weak point, shout!
What do you think about Trump's bragging? And what will his fall look like?
JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:22 am
His behavior was so bad that I sometimes wonder if he’a actually a Russian spy, or else if he just doesn’t want the war to ever end. He’s making many billions of dollars from endless war.
From the first brief interaction i saw of Trump+Z, in T’s first term, my sense was Z was TOTALLY sold out to the left-west, with numbers and promises so great, it would have taken a miracle for him to resist. Trump tried to warn him. He wiggled in his seat like a child.
You could be right about him being a spy. If so, not a brilliant one.
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 7:44 pmYep. The best way not to have wars is to not have them start.
The next best thing is to engage in diplomacy and bring them to an end.
Are you aware that Trump is reported to be a Russian spy?
Zelensky was very clear that he wants the war to stop. It's really a conversation to have w Putin, not Zelensky. What the US is requiring is the equivalent of the US making a peace deal w Bin Laden after 9/11 and expecting Bin Laden to be a man of his word.
Nope. Never heard such a thing.
On this forum opinions are allowed. Admin+mods guide.
i’m not in agreement with you, nor the evident spirit of your opinions.
Time will tell.
At the moment, i’m quite interested in the minerals deal - mostly for the sake of Ukraine.
i hope not to be disappointed. i realize my info isn’t more or less than yours.
i continue my 3 year prayers for resolution.
Last edited by temporal1 on Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
0 x
i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.
”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.
Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.
But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.
mike wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:08 am
All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.
Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.
But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.
mike wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:08 am
All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.
Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.
But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.
It fits perfectly with European and American tactics. Our entire goal was to deplete Russia. An overwhelming victory would risk Russian decisions about nuclear weapons as well.
The only realistic option to either have peace or to push the Russian army back from the land they took over would be effectively to put boots on the ground at this point.
I don’t really like the idea of another demilitarized zone like North Korea.
But what are we really expect out of Ukrainian leader? Do we expect him to just roll over? I think it’s obvious he’s doing the best he can in a very bad situation.
Well, I agree with our president that it’s bad to just continue funding like we are, it’s extremely shortsighted and foolish to say this is all Ukraine’s fault.
We goaded Russia and now we’re changing tactics and leaving our tool out hanging.
mike wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:08 am
All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.
Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.
But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.
You say it's a "hollow mockery", you feel that there should have been US boots on the ground? As I recall Johnson stalled aid to Ukraine for months and put them on the back foot. Ukraine must kick themselves for giving up their nukes. I have children and I would struggle to forgive a country if they abducted mine. So Trump saying Zelensky has such hate...maybe it's a righteous indignation. He goes golfing and Vance goes skiing. How do I reconcile their actions vs "we want peace".
mike wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:08 am
All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.
...
Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.
But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.
You say it's a "hollow mockery", you feel that there should have been US boots on the ground? As I recall Johnson stalled aid to Ukraine for months and put them on the back foot. Ukraine must kick themselves for giving up their nukes. I have children and I would struggle to forgive a country if they abducted mine. So Trump saying Zelensky has such hate...maybe it's a righteous indignation. He goes golfing and Vance goes skiing. How do I reconcile their actions vs "we want peace".
I don't like to say that anything 'should' happen in terms of the nations of this world.
But yes, I feel it is hypocritical for those who are posturing in support of Ukraine to be unwilling to do what it takes for Ukraine to prevail. If they are going to claim to support Ukraine, then let them actually support it. The slow-walking of aid and the limiting of weapons systems like modern fighter aircraft really tells us what sort of 'support' the West has been offering. Not enough, and not soon enough, to make a massive difference.
Where Ukraine should direct its anger, or at least its hard questions, is to the fact the West has not been willing to do what it takes to help them win this war. Maybe the answer to that is that Ukraine is a corrupt nation that its allies do not fully trust to utilize its aid as intended. Maybe the answer is they are all afraid of nuclear war with Russia. Maybe it's something else.
But one thing is clear enough to me. Donald Trump -like him or hate him- is NOT the problem here.
mike wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:08 am
All this meaningless posturing from those who brought Ukraine to this point.
Leaders like Trudeau and Biden and all the others gave Ukraine just enough in the last three years to forestall a complete collapse of the country without giving them enough aid to prevail against Russia, and yet they claim to 'stand with Ukraine.' It's a hollow mockery. They are not willing to expend their own soldiers or high-grade weaponry or air power for Ukraine, but make no mistake - they most certainly 'stand with Ukraine.' With friends like this, Ukraine doesn't need enemies.
But Trump is the bad guy for talking disrespectfully to Zelensky.
It fits perfectly with European and American tactics. Our entire goal was to deplete Russia. An overwhelming victory would risk Russian decisions about nuclear weapons as well.
The only realistic option to either have peace or to push the Russian army back from the land they took over would be effectively to put boots on the ground at this point.
I don’t really like the idea of another demilitarized zone like North Korea.
But what are we really expect out of Ukrainian leader? Do we expect him to just roll over? I think it’s obvious he’s doing the best he can in a very bad situation.
Well, I agree with our president that it’s bad to just continue funding like we are, it’s extremely shortsighted and foolish to say this is all Ukraine’s fault.
We goaded Russia and now we’re changing tactics and leaving our tool out hanging.
Look at how many Russian lives have been lost to US weaponry in the past three years. It is amazing that Russia is even interested in dialogue with the US given how much of its losses in the war have been due to American support of the war effort. It goes to show the evil cynicism of Putin how many Russian lives he has been willing to waste in pursuit of just a little more land and resources, and how he's suddenly willing to ignore all those dead Russians and pivot to make peace with the US.
If that even happens. I mean, nothing has been decided or set in stone at this point. Nothing has actually been given or conceded to Putin yet other than what he has gained himself by aggression and military force. We don't know how this will all shake out yet. What if Europe chooses to flood Ukraine with new support, weaponry, or even troops? Maybe this whole thing could in theory yet turn in favor of Ukraine militarily. A very small probability, but at this point, it feels like anything could happen.
I do agree with you that it is ridiculous to say this war is Ukraine's fault.
I don't know if slow walking the military equipment was actually a terrible strategy. In hindsight it looks bad - and perhaps it was. But wars and international diplomacy is opaque.
In the first year and a half or so, there was serious concern about Russia using nukes, attacking other countries, etc. And if the West had jumped in with both feet early on, like people now think would have been effective, we have no idea how Russia would have responded. The idea that the West could have more fully supported Ukraine with all that equipment out the gate, and think that Russia would have simply played the hand that they did play, seems highly unlikely. Y
You can't go back in time and change one hand, and expect the opponent to not change accordingly as well. The West dribbled out more powerful arms, in such an incremental fashion that it was difficult for Russia to go into full berserker mode.
