Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.

If this laughter has "nothing to do with pleasure" what type of laughter do you propose it is?
I did get an idea of how Vance scolds his wife and kids.

My sense is Trump is grief-filled over needless bloodshed. i interpret his “laughter” as sad irony.
As for JDV, i’ve never seen a moment of him with his family that wasn’t mutually respectful, if not mutually adoring.
i’m not looking to tear down.

i wrote:
.. i understand Trump’s words, “it should have never started” as sheer grief, and i agree. (because i know he advised prevention BEFORE it started.) he grieves it wasn’t prevented. and is now making effort to find resolution, starting with an immediate ceasefire.

Trump suggested immediate ceasefire to Z several times. Z pouted with his signature dark countenance and body language.

i believe you’ll find this forum as one that allows differences of opinion.
(excuse me, i’m going to step back now, other matters are more interesting.)

[JohnH]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.
With as blustery as Trump can be, he can also be trusting and naive. He has more than typical ability to rebound.

This meeting should not have taken place, Z arrived knowing he would not sign as agreed, but would use the moment to leverage for more. This is never appreciated. It’s dishonest.

How do you know Z arrived knowing he wasn't going to sign?

He chose not to sign the deal and instead start arguing with America in front of the cameras.

Here was a Vladimir’s job:

#1. Change into appropriate clothes.
#2. Show up for photo op, answer a few questions from the media.
#3. Sign historic deal which would give Ukraine implicit security guarantee.
#4. Go eat state dinner.
#5. Go home.

He chose to:

#1. Show up in gym attire.
#2. Argue with Trump on TV, demanding additional concessions when he was not in a position to demand anything.
#3. Take an implicit guarantee and try to make it explicit.
#4. Fail to deescalate.
#5. Go be with no deal.

Given his belligerence, I can see why this war has been dragged out so long.

[Southerner]

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.
With as blustery as Trump can be, he can also be trusting and naive. He has more than typical ability to rebound.

This meeting should not have taken place, Z arrived knowing he would not sign as agreed, but would use the moment to leverage for more. This is never appreciated. It’s dishonest.

How do you know Z arrived knowing he wasn't going to sign?

He chose not to sign the deal and instead start arguing with America in front of the cameras.

Here was a Vladimir’s job:

#1. Change into appropriate clothes.
#2. Show up for photo op, answer a few questions from the media.
#3. Sign historic deal which would give Ukraine implicit security guarantee.
#4. Go eat state dinner.
#5. Go home.

He chose to:

#1. Show up in gym attire.
#2. Argue with Trump on TV, demanding additional concessions when he was not in a position to demand anything.
#3. Take an implicit guarantee and try to make it explicit.
#4. Fail to deescalate.
#5. Go be with no deal.

Given his belligerence, I can see why this war has been dragged out so long.

So on #1, Zelensky hasn't worn a suit since Russia invaded in February of 2022. Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend asked why he wasn't wearing one in the oval office and Trump mentioned that he liked his outfit. And apparently Trump also likes Elon's outfit because I haven't heard any push back about it.

[Szdfan]

An "implicit" security guarantee isn't really worth anything considering the long history of Putin ignoring and breaking explicit guarantees. There has to be trust for "implicit" guarantees to work. Zelenskyy is right not to trust Trump.

[Southerner]

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.

If this laughter has "nothing to do with pleasure" what type of laughter do you propose it is?
I did get an idea of how Vance scolds his wife and kids.

My sense is Trump is grief-filled over needless bloodshed. i interpret his “laughter” as sad irony.

So of Trump's laughter "types", in the meeting it was type "sad irony"??? Trump didn't really laugh, his colleagues however did in the background after he said, "This will make great television."

[JohnH]

An "implicit" security guarantee isn't really worth anything considering the long history of Putin ignoring and breaking explicit guarantees. There has to be trust for "implicit" guarantees to work. Zelenskyy is right not to trust Trump.

An implicit guarantee is often far more valuable than an explicit one.

What do you want? A hot war with Russia?

[temporal1]

.. Trump didn't really laugh, his colleagues however did in the background after he said, "This will make great television."

Correct. i viewed again this morning. i intended to correct my words. Trump was not laughing, at all.
This meeting was a beyond-serious situation that should not have happened. Ukraine has the most to lose.

Z should have cancelled the SIGNING meeting when he decided he wanted more. He put everyone in a bad position.

wrt clothing, i’m confident this made no difference to Trump, esp not at this meeting.
Trump said as much IN THE MEETING.

[JohnH]

.. Trump didn't really laugh, his colleagues however did in the background after he said, "This will make great television."

Correct. i viewed again this morning. i intended to correct my words. Trump was not laughing, at all.
This meeting was a beyond-serious situation that should not have happened. Ukraine has the most to lose.

Z should have cancelled the SIGNING meeting when he decided he wanted more. He put everyone in a bad position.

His behavior was so bad that I sometimes wonder if he’a actually a Russian spy, or else if he just doesn’t want the war to ever end. He’s making many billions of dollars from endless war.

[temporal1]

.. Trump didn't really laugh, his colleagues however did in the background after he said, "This will make great television."

Correct. i viewed again this morning. i intended to correct my words. Trump was not laughing, at all.
This meeting was a beyond-serious situation that should not have happened. Ukraine has the most to lose.

Z should have cancelled the SIGNING meeting when he decided he wanted more. He put everyone in a bad position.

His behavior was so bad that I sometimes wonder if he’a actually a Russian spy, or else if he just doesn’t want the war to ever end. He’s making many billions of dollars from endless war.

From the first brief interaction i saw of Trump+Z, in T’s first term, my sense was Z was TOTALLY sold out to the left-west, with numbers and promises so great, it would have taken a miracle for him to resist. Trump tried to warn him. He wiggled in his seat like a child.

You could be right about him being a spy. If so, not a brilliant one.

Yep. The best way not to have wars is to not have them start.
The next best thing is to engage in diplomacy and bring them to an end.

[Southerner]

Correct. i viewed again this morning. i intended to correct my words. Trump was not laughing, at all.
This meeting was a beyond-serious situation that should not have happened. Ukraine has the most to lose.

Z should have cancelled the SIGNING meeting when he decided he wanted more. He put everyone in a bad position.

His behavior was so bad that I sometimes wonder if he’a actually a Russian spy, or else if he just doesn’t want the war to ever end. He’s making many billions of dollars from endless war.

From the first brief interaction i saw of Trump+Z, in T’s first term, my sense was Z was TOTALLY sold out to the left-west, with numbers and promises so great, it would have taken a miracle for him to resist. Trump tried to warn him. He wiggled in his seat like a child.

You could be right about him being a spy. If so, not a brilliant one.

Yep. The best way not to have wars is to not have them start.
The next best thing is to engage in diplomacy and bring them to an end.

Are you aware that Trump is reported to be a Russian spy? Zelensky was very clear that he wants the war to stop. It's really a conversation to have w Putin, not Zelensky. What the US is requiring is the equivalent of the US making a peace deal w Bin Laden after 9/11 and expecting Bin Laden to be a man of his word.