Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Southerner]

I'm wondering if the blow up at the oval office this past week is a good thing for Ukraine in that the US/Russia are no longer heading up the deal making, and Ukraine and Europe are now back in charge of coming up with a plan.

From an earthly kingdoms point of view, Russia is the invader and no deal needs to be made with them to keep some of Ukraine.

I liked Macron's statement to the press immediately after the blowup at the oval office.

"There is an aggressor which is Russia. There is an aggressed people which is Ukraine."

I also liked Macron's statement. And I find Trump's statement, "This war should have never started" so pointless. Why does he say this to Zelensky? Call Putin and tell him that the war shouldn't have started. 20000 Ukrainian children were abducted by Russia, the bombs are still flying and Trump travels to FL to golf and Vance travels to VT to ski. They should apologize to Zelensky.

The war started because Biden’s weakness left an opening. It’s rather obvious that Putin decided not to invade when Trump was President.

When Obama was in office Putin just marched into Crimea and took it. Weak American Presidents embolden foreign strongmen to take what they want, because they know there will be no consequences.

Saying the war would not have started w Trump is a hypothetical and is also pointless.

The Vietnam War should have never started...the Iraqi War should have never started...the Civil War should have never started...on and on.

[JohnH]

Yep. The best way not to have wars is to not have them start.

The next best thing is to engage in diplomacy and bring them to an end.

[Southerner]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

[temporal1]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.
With as blustery as Trump can be, he can also be trusting and naive. He has more than typical ability to rebound.

This meeting should not have taken place, Z arrived knowing he would not sign as agreed, but would use the moment to leverage for more. This is never appreciated. It’s dishonest.

[Southerner]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.
With as blustery as Trump can be, he can also be trusting and naive. He has more than typical ability to rebound.

This meeting should not have taken place, Z arrived knowing he would not sign as agreed, but would use the moment to leverage for more. This is never appreciated. It’s dishonest.

How do you know Z arrived knowing he wasn't going to sign?

[temporal1]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.
With as blustery as Trump can be, he can also be trusting and naive. He has more than typical ability to rebound.

This meeting should not have taken place, Z arrived knowing he would not sign as agreed, but would use the moment to leverage for more. This is never appreciated. It’s dishonest.

How do you know Z arrived knowing he wasn't going to sign?

i believe it was agreed the public meeting was to sign, this was not a meeting to negotiate. This is what i’ve read, and it aligns with video of the full meeting. He appeared, demanding to change the agreement, or he would not sign.

Have you ever bought a house? Contracts are agreed, then closing dates are assigned.
Changes to agreements at closing can result in no closing, as happened here.

The sale may go forward, after renegotiation. The sale may fail.

Do you think Z didn’t know what he had agreed to? That he thought the meeting was to begin negotiation?
(i don’t think he acted alone.) i suspect he had plenty of “counsel” going to the White House.
i suspect he had plenty of “counsel” long before Russia acted 3 years ago.

i’ve never been tempted with billions of dollars by powerful nations. i hope to never be in that position.
i would consider it a hellish place to be.

“What if” there had been NO outside counsel or interference in Ukraine?
Truth is, it’s unknown, pure speculation. One speculation is, Z+Putin might have resolved problems without conflict.

i’m not one to believe “THIS MUST HAPPEN THIS WAY”.
i believe God promises He will provide, in all circumstances.

When men talk in absolutes, it’s likely they’re looking to profit, they stump for their interests.

[Southerner]

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.
With as blustery as Trump can be, he can also be trusting and naive. He has more than typical ability to rebound.

This meeting should not have taken place, Z arrived knowing he would not sign as agreed, but would use the moment to leverage for more. This is never appreciated. It’s dishonest.

How do you know Z arrived knowing he wasn't going to sign?

i believe it was agreed the public meeting was to sign, this was not a meeting to negotiate. This is what i’ve read, and it aligns with video of the full meeting. He appeared, demanding to change the agreement, or he would not sign.

Have you ever bought a house? Contracts are agreed, then closing dates are assigned.
Changes to agreements at closing can result in no closing, as happened here.

The sale may go forward, after renegotiation. The sale may fail.

Do you think Z didn’t know what he had agreed to? That he thought the meeting was to begin negotiation?
(i don’t think he acted alone.) i suspect he had plenty of “counsel” going to the White House.
i suspect he had plenty of “counsel” long before Russia acted 3 years ago.

i’ve never been tempted with billions of dollars by powerful nations. i hope to never be in that position.
i would consider it a hellish place to be.

“What if” there had been NO outside counsel or interference in Ukraine?
Truth is, it’s unknown, pure speculation. One speculation is, Z+Putin might have resolved problems without conflict.

i’m not one to believe “THIS MUST HAPPEN THIS WAY”.
i believe God promises He will provide, in all circumstances.

When men talk in absolutes, it’s likely they’re looking to profit, they stump for their interests.

"He appeared demanding to change the agreement." Really??? I see Zelensky going into defense mode when Vance accused him of taking people on "propaganda tours" and I think Zelensky was sharp enough to realize Trump wasn't serious at all. Trump is theater.

[Southerner]

Zelensky has every reason to be skeptical when you consider how many agreements starting with Ukraine's de-nuclearization agreement in 1994 by Clinton to the Minsk agreements have evaporated.

[Southerner]

And Zelensky meets a president who earlier called him a "dictator", said that Ukraine initiated the war, and had 4% approval ratings. And then Vance shouts at him in front of the media asking if he has said "thank you". And I am saddened that today Rubio maintains the false narrative that Zelensky was disrespectful. I respected Rubio in the past.

[Southerner]

What impressed me about Zelensky's meeting was Trump's statement that "this will make great television" and then I heard Vance laughing. Zelensky is dealing w a horrible war... there's nothing to laugh about.

There are different types of laughter. i’m certain this had nothing to do with pleasure.

If this laughter has "nothing to do with pleasure" what type of laughter do you propose it is?

I did get an idea of how Vance scolds his wife and kids.