JohnL wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:18 am
77 years ago; 58 years ago. This does not justify the murder of hostages, infants, and children. This does not justify the attack in October 2023.
Of course not. Nor does the fact that Israel murdered many times more every year since then. Murder, by terrorist groups or official acts of the military, is never justified.
I do not see it as a moral position to defend the more powerful and effective murdering organization.
Is it possible for one entity to have horrible morals. And another entity to have more horrible morals?
And I'm not sure even how to rate this if I needed to. Killing babies with bare hands is horrific. Killing tens of thousands of innocents is horrific.
3 x
A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
It still just bothers me, deeply, that negotiating for bodies is even taking place. Sit with that for a minute.
Yes. And look at the disparity in the exchange. Israel is giving up over 600 detained Palestinians for 4 dead bodies. I assume this is the kind of deals Israel had to make in order to get anything from Hamas.
mike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:10 pm
And look at the disparity in the exchange. Israel is giving up over 600 detained Palestinians for 4 dead bodies.
This mirrors the disparity in destruction. Israel destroys and kills hundreds of times more Palestinians.
What baffles my mind is the fact that Hamas could easily have predicted this. For every Israeli they killed on Oct. 7, thousands of Palestinians would die. Yet they did the attack anyway. Why?
That's a good question, Mike. I don't know the answer. I suspect it may have something to do with glorifying martyrdom. Before the October attack, they had been severely oppressed in many ways. Maybe revenge, which they would see as justice, justifies the attack whatever suffering they might get in return?
mike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:10 pm
And look at the disparity in the exchange. Israel is giving up over 600 detained Palestinians for 4 dead bodies.
This mirrors the disparity in destruction. Israel destroys and kills hundreds of times more Palestinians.
What baffles my mind is the fact that Hamas could easily have predicted this. For every Israeli they killed on Oct. 7, thousands of Palestinians would die. Yet they did the attack anyway. Why?
To disrupt the Abraham Accords rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states. Which it has successfully done at tremendous cost to the Palestinian people.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:08 pm
This mirrors the disparity in destruction. Israel destroys and kills hundreds of times more Palestinians.
What baffles my mind is the fact that Hamas could easily have predicted this. For every Israeli they killed on Oct. 7, thousands of Palestinians would die. Yet they did the attack anyway. Why?
To disrupt the Abraham Accords rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states. Which it has successfully done at tremendous cost to the Palestinian people.
The fact that they were more than willing to pay this price is all we need to know about the value Hamas places on Palestinian citizens.
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:08 pm
This mirrors the disparity in destruction. Israel destroys and kills hundreds of times more Palestinians.
What baffles my mind is the fact that Hamas could easily have predicted this. For every Israeli they killed on Oct. 7, thousands of Palestinians would die. Yet they did the attack anyway. Why?
To disrupt the Abraham Accords rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states. Which it has successfully done at tremendous cost to the Palestinian people.
Yes, that is part of the answer. The martyrdom piece is also part of the answer. And I think they also expected they would get the sympathy of surrounding Arab countries who haven't cared much about them or come to their aid.
I'm not sure they calculated that they would loose 60% of buildings, 70% of orchards, 50,000 people dead, and another 100,000 injured. (1 out of 10 either dead or injured.)
In their hatred, they may still defend their attack, but 10 or 20 years from now, in their own thoughts, they may think this was foolhardy.
0 x
A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
It looks like another ceasefire / peace deal might happen.
I am still bewildered at the sorts of terms that are being tentatively agreed to. When in the history of the world would such terms even be considered or discussed?
Hamas, a terrorist organization, agrees to return 48 hostages. (some skeletons, and some alive but likely emaciated)
Isreal, a nation with 1000X superior weapons, agrees to release 250 Palestinians serving life sentences and 1700 other detained Gazans.
Some things are perplexing.
0 x
A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
