Excommunication / Shunning / The Ban

[MichaelPA]

I would add Stauffers to my list then. I wasn’t certain if they still did this. (My church views such baptismal vows in a similar way.)



As far as I know, yes, although the one on Ohio disbanded (and dismantled their meetinghouse, as is their custom) and the members moved elsewhere. They maintain a website oddly enough.

The 3 Johns - Herr, Stauffer, and Holdeman - were the chief proponents of reform amongst Mennonites in the 19th century. It is interesting to see the fruit of the movements. For example, Herr didn’t want attendance at other church’s funerals. Holdemans were fine with this.

The Scottsville-type group in Delano doesn’t want its members atys tending other churches’ funerals because Charity type preachers try to convince their members they aren’t born again unless they join a car driving church. They got so tired of being targeted like this they just don’t want their people going to funerals run by Charity type churches or other groups who are convinced everyone who uses horse and buggy somehow isn’t born again.

Pikers can go to other churches' funerals nowadays. Years ago they were advised not to, but it wasn't enforced very strictly.

It is my understanding that it is a church-wide policy for the Hoover Mennonites that they are not to attend other churches' funerals or services, however, it must be left a bit to the discretion of the members, because one of my Hoover Mennonite relatives attended a Piker church funeral one time.

As I understand it, Scottsville-type churches (and probably Hoovers too) wouldn’t see a problem with going to a church that is overall aligned with them in matters of faith and practice, such as the overall approach to salvation, not driving cars, and so forth. From what I hear, they are very comfortable fellowshipping with Swartzentrubers these days.

Oh wow, I'm surprised they fellowship with Swartzentrubers. The Scottsville church would believe in faith only, no works required for salvation, while the Swartzentrubers likely believe in faith and works. The Scottsville type church, or Hoover Mennonites, also are open to the idea of having a new birth experience, which I doubt Swartzentrubers are. Scottsville also has had a tinge of "One True Church" type thinking most of its life.

One of Scottsville's members from a non-Mennonite background left the Hoover church for the Swartzentrubers of Ethridge, TN several years ago, so maybe there has been more rapprochement between the two than I'm aware of.

Scottsville has always been open to change and corrections in their thinking if they become convicted of the need for it, so maybe things have changed for them.

[MichaelPA]

I have many relatives in the Scottsville type churches. They do not visit or have much to do with any of their family outside the church. I have a cousin in the Orthodox Mennonite church here in the Midwest, and he also has very little to do with any family outside the church, including not participating in circle letters with non-members.

I always thought the Hoovers and Orthodox Mennonites were cultish in their approach to faith and religion.

[Ernie]

What if you want to follow the traditions of the church described in the New Testament? Raising hands in prayer, prophets speaking, or wearing the clothes they wore then and there? What if people in the church come from different traditions? Might not respecting others who do things differently be an important part of a healthy community?

I'm still hunting for a church that wouldn't care if I wore robes.

I could point you to a few.

[Josh]

Oh wow, I'm surprised they fellowship with Swartzentrubers.

My understanding is they get along due to having the same general approach to technology issues. I don't know how much they are in "sync" on spiritual issues (nor do I know which of the half dozen of so sects of Swartzentrubers they are finding themselves comfortable with).

[quoote]The Scottsville church would believe in faith only, no works required for salvation, while the Swartzentrubers likely believe in faith and works.[/quote]

Yes, that is my understanding of Scottsville type churches as well, although I have not been able to "nail down" that Swartzentrubers actually believe works merit salvation. I think they might actually believe in salvation via faith, but lack the means to express that in plain English.

The Scottsville type church, or Hoover Mennonites, also are open to the idea of having a new birth experience, which I doubt Swartzentrubers are. Scottsville also has had a tinge of "One True Church" type thinking most of its life.

I have been under the impression that at least Delano has a little bit of OTVC as well, although they seem to be OK if members leave as long as they stay in a horse and buggy group. Specifically, they don't want ex-members coming around who drive cars and giving people rides, or showing up in a car and acting like they somehow still have spiritual life (or have more spiritual life than they used to, etc.)

One of Scottsville's members from a non-Mennonite background left the Hoover church for the Swartzentrubers of Ethridge, TN several years ago, so maybe there has been more rapprochement between the two than I'm aware of.

That's quite a jump...

I have many relatives in the Scottsville type churches. They do not visit or have much to do with any of their family outside the church. I have a cousin in the Orthodox Mennonite church here in the Midwest, and he also has very little to do with any family outside the church, including not participating in circle letters with non-members.

I always thought the Hoovers and Orthodox Mennonites were cultish in their approach to faith and religion.

I have heard the same thing about Scottsville-type churches (or at least Delano). Is that simply a matter of it being a lot of trouble for them to travel to visit? Or do they feel they should avoid the influence of family who are in more-worldly churches?

My impression of the Orthodox Mennonites is they really do sincerely believe they are the only ones on the right path/going to heaven and avoid much entanglements at all with the outside world. As I understand it, the only member who has ever left them is Peter Hoover, but maybe that's stale information.

My impression of Hoovers would be the same as yours... we have quite a few people from Hoover backgrounds in our church and they just have a plain different way of thinking, even a generation or two later. To be frank, their presence in the Muddy Pond congregation has shifted Muddy Pond from a congregation that used to be very good at integrating people from the world and at certain points was majority people from non-Mennonite backgrounds, to one that now isn't really in a position to accept new members from the world. For whatever reasons, the Hoover members tend not to want anyone from the world to join. The Hoover background people also seem to be at variance with our church's stance on divorce and remarriage. (People from the world who feel so inclined would be best advised to simply try a different congregation; there are plenty around.)

[Soloist]

I could point you to a few.

Stable churches? Call me cynical but I’d be surprised.

[Josh]

I could point you to a few.

Stable churches? Call me cynical but I’d be surprised.

Perhaps stable in encouraging you to wear robes?

[Soloist]

I could point you to a few.

Stable churches? Call me cynical but I’d be surprised.

Perhaps stable in encouraging you to wear robes?

Tunics I’ve seen. I’ve never seen any group wearing robes.
It was a little tongue in cheek anyway.
Robes might not be spiritually advisable anyways.

[ken_sylvania]

I could point you to a few.

Stable churches? Call me cynical but I’d be surprised.

Wouldn't that be something more like a saddle or a harness to be worn at a Stable Church?

[Soloist]

I could point you to a few.

Stable churches? Call me cynical but I’d be surprised.

Wouldn't that be something more like a saddle or a harness to be worn at a Stable Church?

Only ever seen a yoke worn effectively. Everyone trying to do a saddle or a harness doesn’t seem to be able to figure out how to wear it.

[ohio jones]

I'm still hunting for a church that wouldn't care if I wore robes.

I could point you to a few.

Stable churches? Call me cynical but I’d be surprised.

You'd be guaranteed a part in the Christmas play. If not entirely stable, there would at least be a manger.