High Demand Religions?

[ken_sylvania]

Shouting is all caps. Bold print is to help me see better.

Oh really? It's interesting how the vision impediment seems to happen when you get in an argument.

I think I distinctly remember OJ asking you to stop bolding your posts.

Robert’s latest post states clearly others cannot micromanage how one posts.

If you have nothing to contribute to the topic itself, there is nothing more I have to say to you. In trying to follow the multiple quotes within quotes that occur to assist with a conversation, it is visually assistive for old eyes to differentiate between the authors. Schadenfreude is not helpful.

Yes, and I appreciate that you are not trying to micromanage how I post. Thank you!

[Sudsy]

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.

I agree but I also think we should be keen on gaining merit. Not regarding our salvation but rather as Paul was keen, towards reward in heaven. My own righteousness cannot save me but if I am relying on His righteousness to be saved, the desire for performance rewards is not a bad thing to pursue.

I have known Christians that play down any thoughts toward being rewarded, beyond heaven. I think Paul said that rewards as a believers was something to be pursued and not a wrong motivation.

I have believed the rewards in heaven will be the souls we helped guide to heaven.

Here is an article to consider regarding rewards. I believe there will be rewards for other things also, one of them being enduring the unjust insults and persecutions we get for being a Christ follower. Jesus says the reward for this will be 'great'. Matthew 5:11-12.

https://ergatas.org/learn/rewards-in-he ... NAEALw_wcB

And another on rewards - https://www.gotquestions.org/rewards-in-heaven.html

[Judas Maccabeus]

All of the items of this list are neither mandated nor required by the RCC. They are optional activities and pieties; they are not minimum standards as you claim.


Are you saying that EVERYONE within your group follows Jesus perfectly? Are you saying that Bible studies are optional? Attending church? Charitable outreach?

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.
Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I think your problem with me is that I actually do understand the teaching of the RCC and bring out points that you would rather not see the light of day. You CLAIM to be an absolute authority, but there is no proof of that.

You have your safe space where none may criticize.

The error of Papist needs to be pointed out, whenever it rears its ugly head. They are closing 2/3 of the Catholic Churches in my fair city. Maybe that shows something about the actual usefulness of these buildings.

When they have state power, they have ruthlessly abused it. Ultimately, there is no fellowship between light and darkness. Roman Catholicism represents darkness. If you like, I could post the excerpts from the attorney general’ investigation here, but I would likely get a bit of grief from the mods, and rightly so. There is more institutional darkness than one cares to imagine. By their fruits ye shall know them.

[Sudsy]

[MaxPC]

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.
Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I think your problem with me is that I actually do understand the teaching of the RCC and bring out points that you would rather not see the light of day. You CLAIM to be an absolute authority, but there is no proof of that.

You have your safe space where none may criticize.

The error of Papist needs to be pointed out, whenever it rears its ugly head. They are closing 2/3 of the Catholic Churches in my fair city. Maybe that shows something about the actual usefulness of these buildings.

When they have state power, they have ruthlessly abused it. Ultimately, there is no fellowship between light and darkness. Roman Catholicism represents darkness. If you like, I could post the excerpts from the attorney general’ investigation here, but I would likely get a bit of grief from the mods, and rightly so. There is more institutional darkness than one cares to imagine. By their fruits ye shall know them.

I have no problem with you as you erroneously assert. So very many other assertions that your posts make also have problems with accuracy and that is why I was invited here: to give a clear and fact-based précis on what is and is not the current teachings of the RCC.

You keep asserting your favorite themes that involve bashing other groups instead of actually examining the current teachings in the Catechism. That is your comfort zone and I do not see that you are interested in hearing the facts from the Catechism. That being said, your issues are your issues as are your opinions. It is not my responsibility to sort your issues.

No one is without sin. No one. Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:

Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Go with God and I urge you to beware the temptation to fall prey to the denigrations of others.

[Josh]

MaxPC, just a friendly reminder of what both his church and mine have in our confession of faith:

First. Observe concerning baptism: Baptism shall be given to all those who have learned repentance and amendment of life, and who believe truly that their sins are taken away by Christ, and to all those who walk in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and wish to be buried with Him in death, so that they may be resurrected with Him, and to all those who with this significance request it [baptism] of us and demand it for themselves. This excludes all infant baptism, the highest and chief abomination of the pope. In this you have the foundation and testimony of the apostles. Mt. 28, Mk. 16, Acts 2, 8, 16, 19. This we wish to hold simply, yet firmly and with assurance.

This is not a belief we hold out of bitterness. The RCC absolutely teaches that salvation and grace are imparted to infants via baptism. We believe that's wrong, and that it's false doctrine.

Going a bit deeper, we believe that salvation is a free gift, as is forgiveness of sins, and that things like penances are not necessary in order to merit forgiveness. This is another wide chasm between us and RCC belief and practice.

[Judas Maccabeus]

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I think your problem with me is that I actually do understand the teaching of the RCC and bring out points that you would rather not see the light of day. You CLAIM to be an absolute authority, but there is no proof of that.

You have your safe space where none may criticize.

The error of Papist needs to be pointed out, whenever it rears its ugly head. They are closing 2/3 of the Catholic Churches in my fair city. Maybe that shows something about the actual usefulness of these buildings.

When they have state power, they have ruthlessly abused it. Ultimately, there is no fellowship between light and darkness. Roman Catholicism represents darkness. If you like, I could post the excerpts from the attorney general’ investigation here, but I would likely get a bit of grief from the mods, and rightly so. There is more institutional darkness than one cares to imagine. By their fruits ye shall know them.

I have no problem with you as you erroneously assert. So very many other assertions that your posts make also have problems with accuracy and that is why I was invited here: to give a clear and fact-based précis on what is and is not the current teachings of the RCC.

You keep asserting your favorite themes that involve bashing other groups instead of actually examining the current teachings in the Catechism. That is your comfort zone and I do not see that you are interested in hearing the facts from the Catechism. That being said, your issues are your issues as are your opinions. It is not my responsibility to sort your issues.

No one is without sin. No one. Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:

Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Go with God and I urge you to beware the temptation to fall prey to the denigrations of others.

I do, in fact, still have my copy of the “Baltimore The Baltimore Catechism“ and I know what it says. Purple, Green and Brown scapulars and the other relics of popery are worthless to rely on for protection. Where in the Bible do you find that sort of stuff.

What the RCC presents is not a high demand religion, but a cafeteria line. Take what want, but you must eat your spinach.

“ in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”. Matt 15:9

[Judas Maccabeus]

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I think your problem with me is that I actually do understand the teaching of the RCC and bring out points that you would rather not see the light of day. You CLAIM to be an absolute authority, but there is no proof of that.

You have your safe space where none may criticize.

The error of Papist needs to be pointed out, whenever it rears its ugly head. They are closing 2/3 of the Catholic Churches in my fair city. Maybe that shows something about the actual usefulness of these buildings.

When they have state power, they have ruthlessly abused it. Ultimately, there is no fellowship between light and darkness. Roman Catholicism represents darkness. If you like, I could post the excerpts from the attorney general’ investigation here, but I would likely get a bit of grief from the mods, and rightly so. There is more institutional darkness than one cares to imagine. By their fruits ye shall know them.

I have no problem with you as you erroneously assert. So very many other assertions that your posts make also have problems with accuracy and that is why I was invited here: to give a clear and fact-based précis on what is and is not the current teachings of the RCC.

You keep asserting your favorite themes that involve bashing other groups instead of actually examining the current teachings in the Catechism. That is your comfort zone and I do not see that you are interested in hearing the facts from the Catechism. That being said, your issues are your issues as are your opinions. It is not my responsibility to sort your issues.

No one is without sin. No one. Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:

Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Go with God and I urge you to beware the temptation to fall prey to the denigrations of others.

I do, in fact, still have my copy of the “Baltimore Catechism“ and I know what it says. Purple, Green and Brown scapulars and the other relics of popery are worthless to rely on for protection. Where in the Bible do you find that sort of stuff.

What the RCC presents is not a high demand religion, but a cafeteria line. Take what want, but you must eat your spinach.

“ in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”. Matt 15:9

[Valerie]

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.
Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I think your problem with me is that I actually do understand the teaching of the RCC and bring out points that you would rather not see the light of day. You CLAIM to be an absolute authority, but there is no proof of that.

You have your safe space where none may criticize.

The error of Papist needs to be pointed out, whenever it rears its ugly head. They are closing 2/3 of the Catholic Churches in my fair city. Maybe that shows something about the actual usefulness of these buildings.

When they have state power, they have ruthlessly abused it. Ultimately, there is no fellowship between light and darkness. Roman Catholicism represents darkness. If you like, I could post the excerpts from the attorney general’ investigation here, but I would likely get a bit of grief from the mods, and rightly so. There is more institutional darkness than one cares to imagine. By their fruits ye shall know them.

The city I live in and area outside of it I see the Catholic churches thriving. I point that out to my husband as I drive past them and see the parking lots full, and street lines with cars as well. Considering they have several services my impression is they are drawing people.

I'm especially impressed with a young man at work who attends one, in his walk with the Lord. My other coworker is 58 & attends the other, and she is a stronger Christian than most I know- I love to hear things they both share but the 22 year old makes me glad to know he has a real relationship with Christ, and bold in faith. And he has joy!
There's a huge Catholic church in next town that I hear good things about.

I appreciate Max loathing the divisiveness. The other night I heard a really good message on Christian radio, "Unity vs Uniformity" How the Church at large needs more unity!!

[Ken]

What the RCC presents is not a high demand religion, but a cafeteria line. Take what want, but you must eat your spinach.

Catholicism is actually sort of bipolar. It is an extremely demanding religion for the clergy (priests, nuns, monks, etc.) which is part of the problem. And not at all demanding for the laity.

I don't think that bifurcation is particularly Biblical or sensible.