High Demand Religions?

[Judas Maccabeus]

I see another thread that has deteriorated into “us vs them” lists of accusations: “we are better than x, y, and z because (fill in the blank).” It reminds me of Luke 18.

I have lived long enough to be able to say that ALL churches have systemic and personal problems with sin, hypocrisy and brokenness “ 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3.”

I have also seen and met some very good people from all of these churches: they may even be called holy in my lexicon.

I do not believe that it is fair to diminish the good that has been done by these individuals simply because they are a member of a faith group that one dislikes. I prefer to view the positive fruit of these good people and how they have lived out the teachings of their church in the hope of hearing: ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ Matthew 25:23.

God looks at each individual; and whether that individual has been faithful in his discipleship walk. It would be a wonderful world if the world’s 2 billion Christians were so busy trying to do God’s Will in their own daily walk that they did not have time to be hostile and aggressive towards each other. They would be like the tax collector rather than the Pharisee of Jesus’ parable in Luke 18:

Come on, Max, they are very much like you all.

There is a minimum standard that must be met, but there is always more:

Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-Daily mass
Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-Evening adoration of the host
Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-First Friday mass
Not required at all-personal choice-Wearing various religious paraphernalia, the green scapular, ect.
Not required at all-charitable social club-Ladies of the sodality
Not required at all-charitable social club-Sacred heart society
Not required at all-charitable social club-Knights of Columbus
...

It is the same for any works based religion. There is always more. There is no end.

All of the items of this list are neither mandated nor required by the RCC. They are optional activities and pieties; they are not minimum standards as you claim.

For us, it is only Jesus. Jesus will satisfy.

Are you saying that EVERYONE within your group follows Jesus perfectly? Are you saying that Bible studies are optional? Attending church? Charitable outreach?

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.

Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

[MaxPC]

Come on, Max, they are very much like you all.

There is a minimum standard that must be met, but there is always more:

Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-Daily mass
Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-Evening adoration of the host
Not required, only suggested/recommended to grow in faith-First Friday mass
Not required at all-personal choice-Wearing various religious paraphernalia, the green scapular, ect.
Not required at all-charitable social club-Ladies of the sodality
Not required at all-charitable social club-Sacred heart society
Not required at all-charitable social club-Knights of Columbus
...

It is the same for any works based religion. There is always more. There is no end.

All of the items of this list are neither mandated nor required by the RCC. They are optional activities and pieties; they are not minimum standards as you claim.

For us, it is only Jesus. Jesus will satisfy.

Are you saying that EVERYONE within your group follows Jesus perfectly? Are you saying that Bible studies are optional? Attending church? Charitable outreach?

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.
Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

[Josh]

The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching.

Anabaptists haven’t disappeared, but have been around and thrived for 500 years. Why? Because we rejected the “chief abomination of the Pope”, infant baptism. We have soundly rejected the RCC’s false doctrines ever since.

And yes, most of us are indeed “former Catholics”, either by ancestry, or first generation like J M. The reason we reject it is because we indeed do comprehend RCC teaching.

The RCC teaches just war. We don’t.

The RCC teaches veneration of Mary. We don’t.

The RCC teaches to display images and icons of dead people. We don’t.

It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Yes, it’s quite sad that the RCC hunted down Anabaptists and killed them.

[ken_sylvania]

All of the items of this list are neither mandated nor required by the RCC. They are optional activities and pieties; they are not minimum standards as you claim.


Are you saying that EVERYONE within your group follows Jesus perfectly? Are you saying that Bible studies are optional? Attending church? Charitable outreach?

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.
Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

What's with the shouting?

[MaxPC]

You missed my point entirely.

Both you and Eastern Orthodoxy have things it would be better if you did, than things you should do, than things you are supposed to do, things you are REALLY supposed to do, and things that if do not do them, you have left the faith. Eastern Orthodoxy is much the same, I am sure my school friend, or even my dentist, could rate Valerie’s list the same way you rated yours.

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.
Both Roman Catholicism and East Orthodoxy work to make merit. We believe one cannot make merit, and are freely saved by the grace that God gives those who rightly believe.

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

What's with the shouting?

Shouting is all caps. Bold print is to help me see better.

[Josh]

You need to read your own posts after they’re posted?

[Sudsy]

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.

I agree but I also think we should be keen on gaining merit. Not regarding our salvation but rather as Paul was keen, towards reward in heaven. My own righteousness cannot save me but if I am relying on His righteousness to be saved, the desire for performance rewards is not a bad thing to pursue.

I have known Christians that play down any thoughts toward being rewarded, beyond heaven. I think Paul said that rewards as a believers was something to be pursued and not a wrong motivation.

[Josh]

We are not saved by the works that we do. Our righteousness is worthless. The things that we do, we do because of the inward change that has occurred in the life of the believers. We do what we do, because the new person that we have become in Christ wants to do those things, not to gain merit.

I agree but I also think we should be keen on gaining merit. Not regarding our salvation but rather as Paul was keen, towards reward in heaven. My own righteousness cannot save me but if I am relying on His righteousness to be saved, the desire for performance rewards is not a bad thing to pursue.

I have known Christians that play down any thoughts toward being rewarded, beyond heaven. I think Paul said that rewards as a believers was something to be pursued and not a wrong motivation.

I have believed the rewards in heaven will be the souls we helped guide to heaven.

[ken_sylvania]

You missed my point entirely. More to my point, every discussion is attacked and turned into an “us vs them” slagging match. The best pastors avoid this tactic but rather instead preach the NT virtues. The worst pastors blame every other Christian group and stir up bias and anger. These latter groups fade and disappear because they do not embrace personal responsibility in the discipleship walk. It is a blame game.

Bitterness is present in every word; no knowledge and sincere listening. Former Catholics do not comprehend RCC teaching. Instead of politely asking questions and listening without attacking, those who are bitter either retreat behind their wall of bigotry or attack to justify their anger. Likewise there are current members who do not comprehend RCC teaching and do not seek understanding. In both camps can be found lives that are distracted and stressed. It is a sad state of humanity that Christian “camp” battles continue.

Jesus’ words remind us about bitterness and angry speech:
Matthew 12:34
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

What's with the shouting?

Shouting is all caps. Bold print is to help me see better.

Oh really? It's interesting how the vision impediment seems to happen when you get in an argument.

I think I distinctly remember OJ asking you to stop bolding your posts.

[MaxPC]

What's with the shouting?

Shouting is all caps. Bold print is to help me see better.

Oh really? It's interesting how the vision impediment seems to happen when you get in an argument.

I think I distinctly remember OJ asking you to stop bolding your posts.

Robert’s latest post states clearly others cannot micromanage how one posts.

If you have nothing to contribute to the topic itself, there is nothing more I have to say to you. In trying to follow the multiple quotes within quotes that occur to assist with a conversation, it is visually assistive for old eyes to differentiate between the authors. Schadenfreude is not helpful.