Poll: Saved or Unsaved?

[Valerie]

It would not surprise me if --- judgments I would make on anyone's salvation turn out to be wrong as I am not infallible. But I do believe one can have assurance that they are saved and this comes through our relationship with the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:16 says - 'The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.' One doesn't have to live in doubt that they are saved. Blessed assurance Jesus is mine and I am His.

So, I chose to trust that God's judment at judgment day is the only one that matters.

I can't see anywhere in scripture that salvation comes from "I think I'm saved" and then having feel-good feelings that you think are the Holy Spirit. It's just not there in the text.

Thinking in the sense of hoping, as in not sure but I might be, is not knowing. However, scriptures say we can know we are saved by the inner witness to our spirit by the Holy Spirit. It isn't about our feelings. Feelings come and go. But when we put our faith in the Gospel that saves us, we can be assured that we are being and will be saved. I was saved as a young lad from the ultimate penalty of my sin. I am being saved as I journey through this life from the power of sin. And when I die, I will be saved from the very presence of sin.

If a Christian does not have this confidence that God has, is and will save them, ask the Holy Spirit to give you this assurance and He will. Satan likes to try to trick us into believing it isn't believing what Jesus did to save us but rather how perfect we must live to be saved and he reminds us of our failings to attempt to get us to give up. 1 John 5:13 says -

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It was what Jesus did to give us the free gift of salvation and not of works of righteousness that we do. Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned.

Very well said Sudsy.

[Josh]

Actually, I’d say satan’s current trick is to convince people they are saved when they are anything but. I rather frequently encounter people who are convinced they are Christians because they asked Jesus into their heart 20 years ago and believe in God but their Christian life goes no further than that.

Someone who continuously commits sins listened in the NT as separating us from God’s kingdom is not actually saved, particularly someone who knowingly commits such sins but relies on some theological concept that they will be saved anyway. I find this quite concerning.

Thinking that the “Holy Spirit” has given you a feeling you are saved doesn’t make you saved either. This concept is not really even in the NT. The proper context for a true believer is in a church where the witness of other believers encourages them that their salvation is genuine and they have leaders and brethren to rely on during times of doubt.

[Valerie]

Actually, I’d say satan’s current trick is to convince people they are saved when they are anything but. I rather frequently encounter people who are convinced they are Christians because they asked Jesus into their heart 20 years ago and believe in God but their Christian life goes no further than that.

Someone who continuously commits sins listened in the NT as separating us from God’s kingdom is not actually saved, particularly someone who knowingly commits such sins but relies on some theological concept that they will be saved anyway. I find this quite concerning.

Thinking that the “Holy Spirit” has given you a feeling you are saved doesn’t make you saved either. This concept is not really even in the NT. The proper context for a true believer is in a church where the witness of other believers encourages them that their salvation is genuine and they have leaders and brethren to rely on during times of doubt.

It is the Holy Spirits purpose, one of them, to convict someone of sin and we all sin in some way daily. That is the beauty of Jesus comparing the publican and the Pharisee - which one was justified.

I get weary of this constant Pharisee attitude looking down nose at other Christians who have joy in their salvation. And yet can say "be merciful to me a sinner" and then as Jesus points out, is "justified" not the self righteous focusing on behavior. It's what stopped Saul dead in his tracks on way to Damascus. He didn't get the Gospel message until He met Jesus and actually learned why his zeal for God and perfection was a stench-

He desires mercy, and not sacrifice. You can tell when someone really "knows" God yet they are not perfect.

I'm not for trying to sort that out "in place" of God who knows the hearts.

To whom much has been given, much will be required- God knows where a lot of these people have "come from" and not all with an Anabaptist spoon in their mouths-

Jesus told His disciples who were far less than perfect, to rejoice that their names were written in the Lambs Book of Life.

[Josh]

I get weary of how many evangelicals claim Amish aren’t saved because they don’t tick the right theological boxes.

[Valerie]

I get weary of how many evangelicals claim Amish aren’t saved because they don’t tick the right theological boxes.

You can talk to former Amish about why all they left. I have listed to countless testimonies. None of them say all Amish are lost nor that an Amish can't be saved, but they certainly have added to the Gospel and I suppose if we agree with them on what the Gospel actually means, we would all be Amish- but as you point out, they split over things like E-Bikes, hat brim widths, plumbing or no plumbing and on and on

Matthew 23:24:

[Josh]

I get weary of how many evangelicals claim Amish aren’t saved because they don’t tick the right theological boxes.

You can talk to former Amish about why all they left. I have listed to countless testimonies. None of them say all Amish are lost nor that an Amish can't be saved, but they certainly have added to the Gospel and I suppose if we agree with them on what the Gospel actually means, we would all be Amish- but as you point out, they split over things like E-Bikes, hat brim widths, plumbing or no plumbing and on and on

Matthew 23:24:

Valerie,

Every other Protestant denomination has also had endless splits too. That’s not a valid criticism.

I have talked mostly to people who are still Amish, not ex Amish, and they certainly believe in Jesus and that Jesus grants salvation to his followers. I also haven’t met any Amish who have “added to the gospel”.

[NedFlanders]

Actually, I’d say satan’s current trick is to convince people they are saved when they are anything but. I rather frequently encounter people who are convinced they are Christians because they asked Jesus into their heart 20 years ago and believe in God but their Christian life goes no further than that.

Someone who continuously commits sins listened in the NT as separating us from God’s kingdom is not actually saved, particularly someone who knowingly commits such sins but relies on some theological concept that they will be saved anyway. I find this quite concerning.

Thinking that the “Holy Spirit” has given you a feeling you are saved doesn’t make you saved either. This concept is not really even in the NT. The proper context for a true believer is in a church where the witness of other believers encourages them that their salvation is genuine and they have leaders and brethren to rely on during times of doubt.

It is the Holy Spirits purpose, one of them, to convict someone of sin and we all sin in some way daily. That is the beauty of Jesus comparing the publican and the Pharisee - which one was justified.

I get weary of this constant Pharisee attitude looking down nose at other Christians who have joy in their salvation. And yet can say "be merciful to me a sinner" and then as Jesus points out, is "justified" not the self righteous focusing on behavior. It's what stopped Saul dead in his tracks on way to Damascus. He didn't get the Gospel message until He met Jesus and actually learned why his zeal for God and perfection was a stench-

He desires mercy, and not sacrifice. You can tell when someone really "knows" God yet they are not perfect.

I'm not for trying to sort that out "in place" of God who knows the hearts.

To whom much has been given, much will be required- God knows where a lot of these people have "come from" and not all with an Anabaptist spoon in their mouths-

Jesus told His disciples who were far less than perfect, to rejoice that their names were written in the Lambs Book of Life.

It is possible for humble Christians to have compassion and mercy for those who don't show fruits meet of repentance, or who profess a different Gospel than the one Christ preached. If you see that as self righteousness then that might be a sign of pride in itself to falsely accuse peoples motives.

[Valerie]

I get weary of how many evangelicals claim Amish aren’t saved because they don’t tick the right theological boxes.

You can talk to former Amish about why all they left. I have listed to countless testimonies. None of them say all Amish are lost nor that an Amish can't be saved, but they certainly have added to the Gospel and I suppose if we agree with them on what the Gospel actually means, we would all be Amish- but as you point out, they split over things like E-Bikes, hat brim widths, plumbing or no plumbing and on and on

Matthew 23:24:

Valerie,

Every other Protestant denomination has also had endless splits too. That’s not a valid criticism.

I have talked mostly to people who are still Amish, not ex Amish, and they certainly believe in Jesus and that Jesus grants salvation to his followers. I also haven’t met any Amish who have “added to the gospel”.

It's Good News "plus" just like the Pharisees when you add extra "requirements" in Biblical or you will be under the Bann.

I have known Amish a long time now, and former Amish a long time now, and have heard it all. Our good friend is joining soon, at 62 years but the things he tells me most certainly I can imagine Jesus confronting like He did the Pharisees. Why do you think Jesus harshest words were to those who thought they were the elite among the elect? Our Amish friend that left at 50 who has been sharing the Gospel for decades and "while Amish" is trying hard to convince our friend not to join, as his heart is for thr lost, the broken, and needing Jesus but not the Amish version. Now this evangelical Amish man visited over 200 Amish communities hoping to find one where he believed were really following Jesus not just Amish Ordnung. I also know former Amish who believe one must leave Anabaptism altogether because of the pride. There clearly is 2 different Gospels being preached. It is not just belief in Jesus of course Amish believe. I love much about Amish yes but -
Anyway, it was our Beachy Amish friend, who I held in high esteem, who recommended Wayne Weaver's church to us and when we listen to him, we not only recognize that he knows Scripture, knows "about" the Lord, but he KNOWS God in a way that my husband is really affected by him - i feel the Holy Spirit is really using him. Now he has taken a lot of tongue lashing from other Anabaptist stripes but from all we've sought out in lady 20 years- I am thankful for a servant like Wayne-

[Valerie]

Actually, I’d say satan’s current trick is to convince people they are saved when they are anything but. I rather frequently encounter people who are convinced they are Christians because they asked Jesus into their heart 20 years ago and believe in God but their Christian life goes no further than that.

Someone who continuously commits sins listened in the NT as separating us from God’s kingdom is not actually saved, particularly someone who knowingly commits such sins but relies on some theological concept that they will be saved anyway. I find this quite concerning.

Thinking that the “Holy Spirit” has given you a feeling you are saved doesn’t make you saved either. This concept is not really even in the NT. The proper context for a true believer is in a church where the witness of other believers encourages them that their salvation is genuine and they have leaders and brethren to rely on during times of doubt.

It is the Holy Spirits purpose, one of them, to convict someone of sin and we all sin in some way daily. That is the beauty of Jesus comparing the publican and the Pharisee - which one was justified.

I get weary of this constant Pharisee attitude looking down nose at other Christians who have joy in their salvation. And yet can say "be merciful to me a sinner" and then as Jesus points out, is "justified" not the self righteous focusing on behavior. It's what stopped Saul dead in his tracks on way to Damascus. He didn't get the Gospel message until He met Jesus and actually learned why his zeal for God and perfection was a stench-

He desires mercy, and not sacrifice. You can tell when someone really "knows" God yet they are not perfect.

I'm not for trying to sort that out "in place" of God who knows the hearts.

To whom much has been given, much will be required- God knows where a lot of these people have "come from" and not all with an Anabaptist spoon in their mouths-

Jesus told His disciples who were far less than perfect, to rejoice that their names were written in the Lambs Book of Life.

It is possible for humble Christians to have compassion and mercy for those who don't show fruits meet of repentance, or who profess a different Gospel than the one Christ preached. If you see that as self righteousness then that might be a sign of pride in itself to falsely accuse peoples motives.

Maybe, but that's how I felt when I read your previous post, I suppose it's a case of judge not lest ye be judged the same. But this whole topic, is promoting us judging others, isn't it?

[Neto]

It is the Holy Spirits purpose, one of them, to convict someone of sin and we all sin in some way daily. That is the beauty of Jesus comparing the publican and the Pharisee - which one was justified.

I get weary of this constant Pharisee attitude looking down nose at other Christians who have joy in their salvation. And yet can say "be merciful to me a sinner" and then as Jesus points out, is "justified" not the self righteous focusing on behavior. It's what stopped Saul dead in his tracks on way to Damascus. He didn't get the Gospel message until He met Jesus and actually learned why his zeal for God and perfection was a stench-

He desires mercy, and not sacrifice. You can tell when someone really "knows" God yet they are not perfect.

I'm not for trying to sort that out "in place" of God who knows the hearts.

To whom much has been given, much will be required- God knows where a lot of these people have "come from" and not all with an Anabaptist spoon in their mouths-

Jesus told His disciples who were far less than perfect, to rejoice that their names were written in the Lambs Book of Life.

It is possible for humble Christians to have compassion and mercy for those who don't show fruits meet of repentance, or who profess a different Gospel than the one Christ preached. If you see that as self righteousness then that might be a sign of pride in itself to falsely accuse peoples motives.

Maybe, but that's how I felt when I read your previous post, I suppose it's a case of judge not lest ye be judged the same. But this whole topic, is promoting us judging others, isn't it?

Recognizing that "God looks on the heart, and people on the outward 'man',", but we ARE directed to 'judge' within the church. Let's call it 'discerning'. I only checked one box in the poll, because failure to recognize Jesus as the Son of God is a degree of false doctrine that puts a person or group outside of the family of faith. They judge themselves by their refusal to believe.

As you said, 'being judged by the same [standard]'. I must also judge myself by the standard of Truth, as revealed in the Scripture, through the work of the Holy Spirit. If we apply the Scripture faithfully in discernment, then it is not we who are judging; we are only bringing to light God's judgement, while there is still time to repent. That is a work of grace.