Poll: Saved or Unsaved?

[Ernie]

There are people who:
1. think they are saved and are
2. think they are saved but aren't
3. think they are lost and are
4. think they are lost but aren't
5. are lost but don't know it (this includes #2 but also includes many people who do not profess Christianity)

Vote if you like.

By voting in this thread, you are not passing judgment. You are simply expressing how you think about these sorts of things.

[Josh]

I have always found "assurance of salvation" (and its ugly cousins, the Calvinist concepts of "perseverance of the saints" and "unconditional election" and the Baptist concept of "eternal security") to be one of the worst frauds the theologians have come up with. It is not a concept that is clearly in the Bible - one is either following Jesus, or they are not. There is not some kind of magic ritual or incantation one can say, or some sacrament to go through that guarantees "salvation" for someone who otherwise does not live like someone who wants to be in Jesus' kingdom at all.

Likewise, it always seemed a bit "off" to me to claim that people can't be saved at all unless they believe in "assurance of salvation". This is one of the worst frauds that the conservative Anabaptist world has perpetrated on its Plain Anabaptist cousins. We need look no farther than the long-term fruit of the descendants of those who listened to the fiery revival preachers of the 1920s or the 1950s - where are things today?

[Sudsy]

It would not surprise me if --- judgments I would make on anyone's salvation turn out to be wrong as I am not infallible. But I do believe one can have assurance that they are saved and this comes through our relationship with the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:16 says - 'The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.' One doesn't have to live in doubt that they are saved. Blessed assurance Jesus is mine and I am His.

So, I chose to trust that God's judment at judgment day is the only one that matters.

[Neto]

I think that saying that I have "assurance of salvation" puts the focus on myself, and I understand how that sounds like pride. I prefer to say that I know that Christ has the power to save us, and I'm not embarrassed to brag on Him.

[Josh]

It would not surprise me if --- judgments I would make on anyone's salvation turn out to be wrong as I am not infallible. But I do believe one can have assurance that they are saved and this comes through our relationship with the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:16 says - 'The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.' One doesn't have to live in doubt that they are saved. Blessed assurance Jesus is mine and I am His.

So, I chose to trust that God's judment at judgment day is the only one that matters.

I can't see anywhere in scripture that salvation comes from "I think I'm saved" and then having feel-good feelings that you think are the Holy Spirit. It's just not there in the text.

[Sudsy]

It would not surprise me if --- judgments I would make on anyone's salvation turn out to be wrong as I am not infallible. But I do believe one can have assurance that they are saved and this comes through our relationship with the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:16 says - 'The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.' One doesn't have to live in doubt that they are saved. Blessed assurance Jesus is mine and I am His.

So, I chose to trust that God's judment at judgment day is the only one that matters.

I can't see anywhere in scripture that salvation comes from "I think I'm saved" and then having feel-good feelings that you think are the Holy Spirit. It's just not there in the text.

Thinking in the sense of hoping, as in not sure but I might be, is not knowing. However, scriptures say we can know we are saved by the inner witness to our spirit by the Holy Spirit. It isn't about our feelings. Feelings come and go. But when we put our faith in the Gospel that saves us, we can be assured that we are being and will be saved. I was saved as a young lad from the ultimate penalty of my sin. I am being saved as I journey through this life from the power of sin. And when I die, I will be saved from the very presence of sin.

If a Christian does not have this confidence that God has, is and will save them, ask the Holy Spirit to give you this assurance and He will. Satan likes to try to trick us into believing it isn't believing what Jesus did to save us but rather how perfect we must live to be saved and he reminds us of our failings to attempt to get us to give up. 1 John 5:13 says -

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It was what Jesus did to give us the free gift of salvation and not of works of righteousness that we do. Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned.

[barnhart]

I think that saying that I have "assurance of salvation" puts the focus on myself, and I understand how that sounds like pride. I prefer to say that I know that Christ has the power to save us, and I'm not embarrassed to brag on Him.

I prefer to turn such conversations to the great shepherd who searches for lost sheep "until he finds them." I don't know what could be more reassuring than that.

[MaxPC]

I think that saying that I have "assurance of salvation" puts the focus on myself, and I understand how that sounds like pride. I prefer to say that I know that Christ has the power to save us, and I'm not embarrassed to brag on Him.

It would not surprise me if --- judgments I would make on anyone's salvation turn out to be wrong as I am not infallible. ... So, I chose to trust that God's judment at judgment day is the only one that matters.

My position is reflected by these two posts above. I prefer to avoid assuming that I know another's status with God.

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

[NedFlanders]

Salvation goes hand in hand with being born again. So since Jesus said that if your not born again you will not see the Kingdom of God and most don't see or preach the Gospel of the kingdom of God then it would seem that there are few that enter. And therefore why I find myself amongst Anabaptist people - there are very very few outside of Conservative Anabaptism who preach the Gospel that Jesus preached and when evangelicals are asked, typically they are confused when confronted with what Jesus said and profess to never having seen the kingdom of God to the point of even arguing against the words of Christ. In my experience Catholics don't argue this however.

[Josh]

I think that saying that I have "assurance of salvation" puts the focus on myself, and I understand how that sounds like pride. I prefer to say that I know that Christ has the power to save us, and I'm not embarrassed to brag on Him.

It would not surprise me if --- judgments I would make on anyone's salvation turn out to be wrong as I am not infallible. ... So, I chose to trust that God's judment at judgment day is the only one that matters.

My position is reflected by these two posts above. I prefer to avoid assuming that I know another's status with God.

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

MaxPC,

What is Catholic doctrine on whether we are saved or unsaved?

As I understand it, it is chiefly based on whether or not one has received the sacrament of baptism.