Where can you afford a home on your income?

[Soloist]

If your ministers agree that your speech is fine I would be very surprised and disappointed.
When two of your brothers try to address your sin and you reject it…

you’re going to past simply calling out sin Josh. And you have been called out too.

How do you respond to having someone tell you that the way you talk is sinful? Do you think they are going to respond better then you? You rejected our opinions. Why in the world would anyone listen to you when you don’t listen?

[Josh]

Being a single parent is not a sin, neither is being the child of a single parent a sin. Neither is being poor a sin.

Choosing to be a single parent, however, is indeed a very grave sin.

Did you ever stop to think about the link between poverty and criminality and the presence of a divorced and remarried father figure in the home?

Poverty and poor people don’t create crime. Criminals create crime. Crime does lead to poverty, though. There are many communities around the world with high poverty and little crime.

I would agree that divorced families with children end up creating problems, too, although the research isn’t as crystal clear on this hence why I have not brought it up. Single parenthood is a crystal clear connection, with also a crystal clear choice on the part of both parents. Divorced people often doesn’t involve both parents choosing it.

How would you feel if someone said that they don't want your family in their neighborhood because your children are trash and will ruin he neighborhood?

Most plain people wouldn’t want me in their community or at their social activities, so I already know how this feels.

There is absolutely no Biblical support for your proposition that the children of a single parent ought to be taken away and adopted into 2-parent homes. And I truly doubt your claim that adoptions statistically have better outcomes compared with children raised in single-parent homes.

I never claimed it was “biblical”, although the example from OT law is that children outside of wedlock weren’t tolerated. I am simply making an argument that it’s not good for children to be raised in intentional single parent homes.

I have explicitly said nothing about divorced parents, widowed parents, or situations resulting from violent assaults.

Your speech in this thread is a direct violation of the Biblical injunctions in Colossians 4:6 and Ephesians 4:32.

You’re welcome to your opinion. I disagree.

I think we have a real problem when Christians fail to name fornication as sin, and indeed complain that those few of us who will name it are somehow sinning by being willing to name it as such.

[Josh]

Ken, none of what I said has zip all to do with politics nor with presidential candidates. Why are you bringing that up?

Politics is vastly more than presidential elections. In fact, there is an old saying that all politics is local. In this country, most politics are local.

Any time you are identifying any public issue and advocating for the STATE to do anything about it you are by definition expressing political opinions and engaging in political discussions or political advocacy.

Every one of your proposals above is political. Because you are advocating for the state to regulate the behavior of people outside your immediate family and church. That is pure politics.

None of them are political. I haven’t tried to make the state change anything.

I have simply stated what right and wrong is.

For example, “murder is wrong”. That isn’t a political statement.

[Josh]

If your ministers agree that your speech is fine I would be very surprised and disappointed.
When two of your brothers try to address your sin and you reject it…

you’re going to past simply calling out sin Josh. And you have been called out too.

How do you respond to having someone tell you that the way you talk is sinful? Do you think they are going to respond better then you? You rejected our opinions. Why in the world would anyone listen to you when you don’t listen?

Because it’s simply not sinful to believe that fornication, and the result of it, is wrong. You’re welcome to your opinions. It is disturbing how strong of a reaction it provokes to simply speak against sin.

Choosing single parenthood is a sin, every single time. You are welcome to reject my opinion on this.

[temporal1]

What do scriptures say about GOOD INTENTIONS that make everything worse?

In this case, it’s about various gov subsidies intended to help single mothers, but end up proliferating the problems?
Decades on, the disastrous results are in. Now what?

i appreciate a lot of what THOMAS SOWELL has to say about it. (links elsewhere on MN)
i’m not sure if he’s a Christian, i don’t think his views on it conflict with scriptures.

[Ken]

What do scriptures say about GOOD INTENTIONS that make everything worse?

Um....not very much that I'm aware of.

The Bible talks about the problem of not following through with one's intentions. But I'm not aware of any verses which teach that good intentions themselves make things worse. Which is something different.

Do you have specific verses in mind?

[ken_sylvania]

Choosing single parenthood is a sin, every single time. You are welcome to reject my opinion on this.

Please explain - where do you get Bible support for the idea that a single person dare not adopt a child?
Where do you read that a widow with children must re-marry if given the opportunity?

[ken_sylvania]

I think we have a real problem when Christians fail to name fornication as sin, and indeed complain that those few of us who will name it are somehow sinning by being willing to name it as such.

I have not complained that you are sinning by being willing to name fornication as sin, nor have the other Christians who objected to your language in this thread.

[Soloist]

If your ministers agree that your speech is fine I would be very surprised and disappointed.
When two of your brothers try to address your sin and you reject it…

you’re going to past simply calling out sin Josh. And you have been called out too.

How do you respond to having someone tell you that the way you talk is sinful? Do you think they are going to respond better then you? You rejected our opinions. Why in the world would anyone listen to you when you don’t listen?

Because it’s simply not sinful to believe that fornication, and the result of it, is wrong. You’re welcome to your opinions. It is disturbing how strong of a reaction it provokes to simply speak against sin.

Choosing single parenthood is a sin, every single time. You are welcome to reject my opinion on this.

Wife:Fornication is the sin, not choosing to keep the child that result out of it.

It’s amazing how often a child ends up being the reason the mom straightens up her life and gets responsible, and a few I know even turned to God because of their child. One of my friends, who was a pregnant teenager, ended up going through the difficulty of being a single working mom for several years (I don’t know how much help she got from her mom with childcare), and then married a Christian man, later got involved with anabaptist groups and has had several more children since then. Her child born out of wedlock is a strong Christian at this point. Another friend had pregnancy end up making her go clean, drug free, and Christian for the sake of her child, and meeting her today, you would never know she used to be a druggie. she thankfully has a work situation that allows her to take care of her child. i’ve also had a cousin who got out of drugs and promiscuity, and even started becoming more religious, because she had children to take care of. she briefly married the man, but he ended up being physically abusive, so she and her mom are the ones raising the children. she hast to work to support her children, but still tries to be very involved in their life and their school.

Most churches I know try working with both the mom and the child, and don’t try to split them up unless there’s an actual reason outside of single parenthood. Usually, that scenario ends up being better for both mom and child. Not to mention that not every adoptive home is loving, safe, or Christian, and sometimes children deal with major rejection issues.

Again, fornication is sin, but taking responsibility for your child is not.

[Ken]

Ken, none of what I said has zip all to do with politics nor with presidential candidates. Why are you bringing that up?

Politics is vastly more than presidential elections. In fact, there is an old saying that all politics is local. In this country, most politics are local.

Any time you are identifying any public issue and advocating for the STATE to do anything about it you are by definition expressing political opinions and engaging in political discussions or political advocacy.

Every one of your proposals above is political. Because you are advocating for the state to regulate the behavior of people outside your immediate family and church. That is pure politics.

None of them are political. I haven’t tried to make the state change anything.

I have simply stated what right and wrong is.

For example, “murder is wrong”. That isn’t a political statement.

This is a discussion forum. We engage in political discussions and express political opinions. Political advocacy or political participation is something different. I don't know if you engage in any of that or not. But if you did you would likely be doing it someplace else as this would be a very poor forum for doing that.

But you most certainly express political opinions and are engaging in political discussion.

You are expressing political opinions and engaging in political discussion if you suggest that the state change any laws
And you are also expressing political opinions and engaging in political discussion if you oppose changes to laws suggested by others.

In this thread you have expressed the opinion that it should be harder for certain people to live near you. That we should make it harder for single mothers. That we should fix the problem of single motherhood at the source. And in other threads you have said that single parents should be punished by the state. And you have even suggested that adulterers should be executed. Those are all political opinions to the extent that it would require the state to make any of those things happen. Only the state has the power to regulate who lives near you. Only the state has the power to make life more difficult for single mothers who are not part of your family. Only the state has the power to punish single parents. And only the state has the power to execute anyone.