Where can you afford a home on your income?

[Soloist]

Single mothers create bad places to live, crime, and bad neighbourhoods. I don’t want to make it “easier” for them to come and pollute where I live. They should give up their babies for adoption.

i just don't know what to say
i type and delete, type and delete.

It’s the facts. Choosing fornication and single parenthood is a selfish, sinful choice, particularly when the very good “out” of adoption is there in the table to reconcile this bad situation.

Children of single mothers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. That’s what makes “bad neighbourhoods”. Instead of spreading the problem, how about we fix it at its source?

It is not single parenthood that is the problem you are actually talking about here. It is the promiscuousness with multiple men that is the problem. There are many situations where marriage makes a bad problem worse. Your language is very inflammatory and antagonistic. Even though I know what you (hopefully) actually mean, you’re being way too broad with your statements.
Also, even if they are spending time with other men, they might still genuinely love their children and care for them better than the state would. Some of them also straighten out their life because they’re now a mom. There’s no way of knowing if adoption actually will always be a better situation for this poor child in question. Your language makes it very suggestive that you would rather they just simply abort, which I know you don’t believe, so perhaps, rather than judging them, you should appreciate the fact they didn’t abort.

[silentreader]

i just don't know what to say
i type and delete, type and delete.

It’s the facts. Choosing fornication and single parenthood is a selfish, sinful choice, particularly when the very good “out” of adoption is there in the table to reconcile this bad situation.

Children of single mothers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. That’s what makes “bad neighbourhoods”. Instead of spreading the problem, how about we fix it at its source?

Josh you aren't acting like a Christian.

Don't you think it would be better worded as a question?

[Ken]

I don’t really want it to be easier for criminals to move to, for example, where I live.

and

If we make it easier to be a single mother, we will get more single motherhood. We should make it harder to be a single mother and then we will have fewer children out of wedlock and more children would be adopted into loving 2 parent homes.

and

Single mothers create bad places to live, crime, and bad neighbourhoods. I don’t want to make it “easier” for them to come and pollute where I live. They should give up their babies for adoption.

and

Children of single mothers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. That’s what makes “bad neighbourhoods”. Instead of spreading the problem, how about we fix it at its source?

Let's see, Is this accurate?

• wants to make it harder for certain people to move in the neighborhood
• wants to make it harder to be a single mother
• wants to "fix" the "problem of single motherhood at its source
• on another thread wanted to use the criminal justice system to "punish" people who have children out of wedlock
• and on another thread called for the death penalty for adultery.

Is this the same person who on the Alex Jones thread claimed:

I haven’t actually advocated for any political change.

And the same person who on the challenge thread wrote:

It would be possible to have endless political discussion here without mentioning Biden, Trump, conspiracy theorizing, or posting YouTube clips with people making strange faces. For example:
. . .
Housing policy and why housing is becoming so unaffordable (another new thread that just started)
. . .
The politics of abortion and other related topics like IVF, contraception, sex education, divorce, sex outside marriage.

I would prefer MennoNet not be a forum for the above topics.

OK then....

[ken_sylvania]

It’s the facts. Choosing fornication and single parenthood is a selfish, sinful choice, particularly when the very good “out” of adoption is there in the table to reconcile this bad situation.

Children of single mothers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. That’s what makes “bad neighbourhoods”. Instead of spreading the problem, how about we fix it at its source?

Josh you aren't acting like a Christian.

Don't you think it would be better worded as a question?

Actually, I don't. Sometimes sin needs to be called out as sin and quite frankly the language Josh was using is shameful and wrong.
(I expect your comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek.)

[Josh]

Children of single mothers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. That’s what makes “bad neighbourhoods”. Instead of spreading the problem, how about we fix it at its source?

What fixes do you have in mind?

Promote adoption when children are born out of wedlock (this is something Anabaptists already do). Have many families willing to adopt (this is also something Anabaptists do; my local church has 3 young families adopting children, 1 middle aged family adopting, and several older families who adopted; 2 of those families are also doing foster care).

Strongly condemn promiscuity and teach that it is a grave sin with very serious consequences including lifelong damage for the children born from it.

[Josh]

Josh you aren't acting like a Christian.

Don't you think it would be better worded as a question?

Actually, I don't. Sometimes sin needs to be called out as sin and quite frankly the language Josh was using is shameful and wrong.
(I expect your comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek.)

Calling out fornication and promiscuity as sin is not sin. It is currently fashionable in society to act like choosing to be a single parent isn’t a sin, but just “happens”, like stumbling down the stairs or losing your keys. It isn’t. It is a very grave sin and indeed a death sin, listed as something in the New Testament that will separate us from Jesus’ kingdom.

The consequences of sin are also grave. The connection between single parenthood and poverty and criminality are well documented. It isn’t fashionable to point this out, but it is true. And the cure is quite simple - #1, avoid promiscuity; #2, when it does happen, children can be adopted into loving, 2-parent homes.

[Josh]

It is not single parenthood that is the problem you are actually talking about here. It is the promiscuousness with multiple men that is the problem.

Fornication with one man who doesn’t stick around (which is the norm in children born out of wedlock) still results in all the same problems.

There are many situations where marriage makes a bad problem worse. Your language is very inflammatory and antagonistic. Even though I know what you (hopefully) actually mean, you’re being way too broad with your statements.

I’m actually not; it just is considered “inflammatory” to call out sin as sin. Single parenthood doesn’t happen without sinful choices on the part of 2 people first. (I am not talking about divorced mothers or fathers, widows, widowers, or victims of sexual assault here. I am talking about the vast majority of single parents - people who voluntarily chose fornication or adultery.)

Also, even if they are spending time with other men, they might still genuinely love their children and care for them better than the state would. Some of them also straighten out their life because they’re now a mom.

Look, I’ve known plenty of single mothers. This almost never happens (although it’s not impossible).

Of course they love and care for their kids, but they are in an impossible situation where they simply cannot raise them properly. Their kids are at permanent disadvantage. This is reality, backed by mountains of peer-reviewed research.

There’s no way of knowing if adoption actually will always be a better situation for this poor child in question.

Actually there is a way of knowing - adoption statistically has better outcomes than single mothers.

Your language makes it very suggestive that you would rather they just simply abort

No I didn’t. I said adoption is the best choice.

which I know you don’t believe, so perhaps, rather than judging them, you should appreciate the fact they didn’t abort.

It is good to judge with righteous judgment. The simple fact is that widespread fornication and single parenthood destroys a society, and we need look no farther than our present day society to see that.

The first step to call sinners to repentance is to call out sin as sin.

[Josh]

I don’t really want it to be easier for criminals to move to, for example, where I live.

and

If we make it easier to be a single mother, we will get more single motherhood. We should make it harder to be a single mother and then we will have fewer children out of wedlock and more children would be adopted into loving 2 parent homes.

and

Single mothers create bad places to live, crime, and bad neighbourhoods. I don’t want to make it “easier” for them to come and pollute where I live. They should give up their babies for adoption.

and

Children of single mothers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. That’s what makes “bad neighbourhoods”. Instead of spreading the problem, how about we fix it at its source?

Let's see, Is this accurate?

• wants to make it harder for certain people to move in the neighborhood
• wants to make it harder to be a single mother
• wants to "fix" the "problem of single motherhood at its source
• on another thread wanted to use the criminal justice system to "punish" people who have children out of wedlock
• and on another thread called for the death penalty for adultery.

None of this is calling for political change.

I would prefer it if a smoke shop / witchcraft supplies store hadn’t opened within a mile of my home. I haven’t engaged politically to try to close it.

I would prefer it if criminals didn’t move to where I live. I haven’t taken political steps to make it harder. (The local government, on the other hand, has.)

I think the just punishment for adultery and fornication is execution, but I won’t be personally executing anybody. Nonetheless, God judges such sins with eternal death, and his perfect law in the Bible is that death is the consequence for such things.

I don’t think giving incentives to single parents to have children out of wedlock is a good idea. Yet I haven’t done anything politically to change that.

Is this the same person who on the Alex Jones thread claimed:

I haven’t actually advocated for any political change.

Correct. Because I have t.

And the same person who on the challenge thread wrote:

It would be possible to have endless political discussion here without mentioning Biden, Trump, conspiracy theorizing, or posting YouTube clips with people making strange faces. For example:
. . .
Housing policy and why housing is becoming so unaffordable (another new thread that just started)
. . .
The politics of abortion and other related topics like IVF, contraception, sex education, divorce, sex outside marriage.

I would prefer MennoNet not be a forum for the above topics.

OK then....

Ken, none of what I said has zip all to do with politics nor with presidential candidates. Why are you bringing that up?

[ken_sylvania]

Don't you think it would be better worded as a question?

Actually, I don't. Sometimes sin needs to be called out as sin and quite frankly the language Josh was using is shameful and wrong.
(I expect your comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek.)

Calling out fornication and promiscuity as sin is not sin. It is currently fashionable in society to act like choosing to be a single parent isn’t a sin, but just “happens”, like stumbling down the stairs or losing your keys. It isn’t. It is a very grave sin and indeed a death sin, listed as something in the New Testament that will separate us from Jesus’ kingdom.

The consequences of sin are also grave. The connection between single parenthood and poverty and criminality are well documented. It isn’t fashionable to point this out, but it is true. And the cure is quite simple - #1, avoid promiscuity; #2, when it does happen, children can be adopted into loving, 2-parent homes.

Being a single parent is not a sin, neither is being the child of a single parent a sin. Neither is being poor a sin.
Did you ever stop to think about the link between poverty and criminality and the presence of a divorced and remarried father figure in the home? How would you feel if someone said that they don't want your family in their neighborhood because your children are trash and will ruin he neighborhood?

There is absolutely no Biblical support for your proposition that the children of a single parent ought to be taken away and adopted into 2-parent homes. And I truly doubt your claim that adoptions statistically have better outcomes compared with children raised in single-parent homes.

Your speech in this thread is a direct violation of the Biblical injunctions in Colossians 4:6 and Ephesians 4:32.

[Ken]

Ken, none of what I said has zip all to do with politics nor with presidential candidates. Why are you bringing that up?

Politics is vastly more than presidential elections. In fact, there is an old saying that all politics is local. In this country, most politics are local.

Any time you are identifying any public issue and advocating for the STATE to do anything about it you are by definition expressing political opinions and engaging in political discussions or political advocacy.

Every one of your proposals above is political. Because you are advocating for the state to regulate the behavior of people outside your immediate family and church. That is pure politics.