The cape dress: Its origins and evolution over the ages

[Judas Maccabeus]

The shape of the cape is the distinguishing characteristic.

Anyone remember the Charity-style matching vest over a cape dress fad? haven't see that one in a while.

That is common in my part of KMF. Even my wife has one.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I decided this topic may be better suited in this thread...

But the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time...

Is that actually true?

There is a tremendous amount of artwork and photography and written descriptions of women's dress going back all the way to medieval times and before. Cape dresses as they are worn today by conservative Mennonites seem to be mostly a 20th Century development.

My own family tree is full of 19th Century Mennonite women and in the photos we have of them, they are all dressed modestly, but I don't see any cape dresses. They are all dressed in what appears to be the normal fashions of the time. A lot of them aren't wearing dresses at all, but rather long skirts and blouses.

You are welcome to make a case against what I claimed. I have not researched this extensively.

Many Mennonite women of the 19th century dressed fashionably, particularly in their younger years, and did not wear traditional clothing like older Mennonite women and Amish women.

The cape dress design has changed some but the double-layered bodice, often referred to as a cape, seems to be quite common for peasants.
Below are some sources... not all are primary sources... Keep in mind that approximately 85-90% of people in the 16th century were peasants, and a lot of the pictures of people of that time period were the rich rather than the peasants. The rich tended to dress less modestly. I agree that some designs don't look much like cape dresses today, but they do look more like cape dresses today, then what the majority of western women wear today.

https://amiesparrow.wordpress.com/kasf- ... 1520-1530/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_dress

https://handcraftedhistory.blog/2022/01 ... ing-woman/

https://thenewcut.wordpress.com/overvie ... -scenes-2/

https://amiesparrow.files.wordpress.com ... or-web.pdf

www.pinterest.com/pin/574138652506898867/

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1331035645 ... ch_click=1

https://www.etsy.com/listing/746436813/ ... ch_click=1

https://jezebeljane.blogspot.com/2021/0 ... thern.html

http://www.elizabethancostume.net/lower ... dress.html

https://evashistoricalcostumes.blogspot ... -that.html

www.pinterest.com/pin/497577458821639485/

A woman wearing 1910 era day dress of the middle class could fit right into a moderate conservative church that does not require cape dresses without anyone noticing. It was only in the 1920s when things went off of the rails.

In fact, much of today's Tracht, or German traditional dress actually worn by rural Germans (NOT to Octoberfest or by tourists ) is quite modest and double layered.

[Ernie]

I'm not quibbling with the notion that women in the past may have worn clothing similar to the cape dresses worn by modern conservative Anabaptists.

I'm quibbling with your statement that: "the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time... "

Women dressed modestly. But not necessarily in that specific style. Certainly not in the 19th Century. In fact, in all my historic family photos which are all Mennonite, it doesn't really start showing up until the 1930s or so. For example, photos of my Mennonite great grandparents in Belleville PA in the early 1900s when they were young look how any Americans would have dressed in 1908. But fast forward to the 1940s and they are dressed in cape dresses and straight coat.

I'm not talking about the 1800's and 1900's. I'm talking about the 16th century among the peasants who were the majority at that time.

This was my quote.

But the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time...

[Neto]

I'm not quibbling with the notion that women in the past may have worn clothing similar to the cape dresses worn by modern conservative Anabaptists.

I'm quibbling with your statement that: "the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time... "

Women dressed modestly. But not necessarily in that specific style. Certainly not in the 19th Century. In fact, in all my historic family photos which are all Mennonite, it doesn't really start showing up until the 1930s or so. For example, photos of my Mennonite great grandparents in Belleville PA in the early 1900s when they were young look how any Americans would have dressed in 1908. But fast forward to the 1940s and they are dressed in cape dresses and straight coat.

I'm not talking about the 1800's and 1900's. I'm talking about the 16th century among the peasants who were the majority at that time.

This was my quote.

But the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time...

Not in the exact design, but in the same function. The same as involving the use of a double cover, but not in the way they are put together. Specifically, I would guess that in earlier times the 'cape' was always a completely separate piece, partly so that it could be washed and dried separately, and to make it easy to replace it, as it was the part of the dress that saw the most soiling & wear. (My mom tells how, when she was a child, when the front of her dress got dirty, she would wear it backwards the next day. For the common people, being able to wear different clothing every day is a relatively recent modern invention and convenience.)

[Ernie]

Specifically, I would guess that in earlier times the 'cape' was always a completely separate piece,

Among many Mennonites, the cape is still a completely separate piece.

[steve-in-kville]

Specifically, I would guess that in earlier times the 'cape' was always a completely separate piece,

Among many Mennonites, the cape is still a completely separate piece.

Horning and Joe Wengers, at least for grown ladies.

[Neto]

Specifically, I would guess that in earlier times the 'cape' was always a completely separate piece,

Among many Mennonites, the cape is still a completely separate piece.

Horning and Joe Wengers, at least for grown ladies.

This raises another question in my mind - what do you think the original purpose of this additional cover was? To protect the dress, or for modesty? I would imagine that it was both, but I would say that there were logical reasons for having it as a completely separate piece of fabric, and that the incorporation of it into the dress itself must be a recent innovation, something depending on the wealth and conveniences that allowed a woman to have many more dresses, and also for more frequent washing (and automatic dryers?).

For those in Beachy circles, when did it start that way, and was it the young women who did this first? (I am asking specifically about Beachys, because that is my only up-close experience with seeing it, as that is my wife's background.)

[Sudsy]

How I view this topic regarding the cape dress and other ways of uniform clothing in Christianity -

What I believe has 'gone off the rails', so to speak with women's clothing in some Christian groups is when a certain type of clothing is required and the scriptures do not go to this level of defining. Scripture uses terminology of modesty and self restraint to not draw attention to themselves through their outward appearance but rather they should focus on drawing attention by their good deeds which scripture says is the proper way for those professing to know God to be seen. 1 Timothy 2:9-10.

To me, it is a way of seeking uniformity beyond what scripture says and interferes with the guiding of the Holy Spirit in each person's life. If a lady focuses on being directed by the Holy Spirit, I believe, she will dress in a way that to God is acceptable and she should be known rather by her good deeds and not her dress as the scripture text above says. I also believe that there will be variations in how and when the Holy Spirit will guide each woman in this regard and the local church should not be involved in trying to do His work by requiring a certain outward appearance to belong.

When it comes to uniform dress I'm reminded of the Salvation Army. The original idea of having a uniform was to be easily recognized in public to be of service to them as they mingled with sinners. However their uniform took on all kinds of other meaning identifying various roles and status of the Army members. Something scripture really has no support to do yet it was originally a means they used to reach the lost.

When it comes to a cape dress, it seems to me the main emphasis is not only on dressing modestly but also dressing obviously different from the world in the world's current style of dress. Imo, there are modest ways to dress today that does not attract the wrong kind of attention to one's body and many Christian women know how to dress in that manner. The emphasis in that text is both a 'what not' and 'what' to do. I seldom hear discussion regarding the 'what' (good deeds) but much discussion on the 'what not' (outward adornments) to be the attraction God desires.

If only the good deeds got anywhere close to the attention that the outward adornments got by some, what might the results be on the unsaved world. Again I think this is another one of those things that get Christians overly focused on themselves and their form of godliness and get a very uncaring attitude toward the lost.

In the MB church I attended they have, over the years, went through quite a change regarding the importance of dress. And today there are those in the church that do attract attention to themselves through outward adornments. And imo, both modest dress and good deeds really could use more preaching as one considers their ways. But not in the sense of creating uniforms of sorts. To me, this misses the point and is by some a drift into legalism.

[Ken]

I'm not quibbling with the notion that women in the past may have worn clothing similar to the cape dresses worn by modern conservative Anabaptists.

I'm quibbling with your statement that: "the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time... "

Women dressed modestly. But not necessarily in that specific style. Certainly not in the 19th Century. In fact, in all my historic family photos which are all Mennonite, it doesn't really start showing up until the 1930s or so. For example, photos of my Mennonite great grandparents in Belleville PA in the early 1900s when they were young look how any Americans would have dressed in 1908. But fast forward to the 1940s and they are dressed in cape dresses and straight coat.

I'm not talking about the 1800's and 1900's. I'm talking about the 16th century among the peasants who were the majority at that time.

This was my quote.

But the majority of professing Christian women in the west wore cape dresses at one time...

Why are you stopping at the the 16th Century which wasn't a particularly devout moment in human history? Why not go all the way back to New Testament times when the majority of professing Christian women probably dressed more like this?

You are arguing for going all the way back to New Testament rules for divorce on the other thread. Why not actual New Testament customs in dress as well? For both men and women? When Paul was talking about women covering their heads in 1 Corinthians, I suspect this is what he was talking about, not Menno-style transparent doilies.

[ken_sylvania]

I seldom hear discussion regarding the 'what' (good deeds) but much discussion on the 'what not' (outward adornments) to be the attraction God desires.

If only the good deeds got anywhere close to the attention that the outward adornments got by some, what might the results be on the unsaved world. Again I think this is another one of those things that get Christians overly focused on themselves and their form of godliness and get a very uncaring attitude toward the lost.

At the conservative Mennonite church where I am a member, there is much, much more focus on what to do as opposed to what not to do.

I would encourage you to focus more on "what" (good deeds) and spend less time focusing on what you think the Mennonites and Amish got wrong (what they should not be doing). You might find more joy and blessing in life that way.