A YouTuber visits a Nationwide Fellowship church

[Josh]

I’m probably just babbling by now, but we literally moved across the county~ from the west coast to PA~ to have more options in finding a good anabaptist church.

It’s kind of crazy now when I look back on it, and has absolutely nothing to do with the video.

For reference there are a lot of good churches and communities on the West Coast... including ones in Oregon, northern California, the Central Valley, and yes, even Southern California.

I am often not enthused about the idea of seekers just packing everything up and moving to a new area, especially a plain "stronghold" like PA where the culture is very strong and they aren't accustomed to having to deal as much with outsiders. (That would write off where I live in Ohio, too, although my family has lived in the area I am off and on for generations, so I feel comfortable here.)

But actually maybe it does… the video shows people who ‘have it together’ with good marriages, well-adjusted children, holy lives… and that’s what we wanted & what we thought we were getting.

lesterb talked about this a bit back in the day, and I think this is another challenge that the seeker who is already a Christian faces when seeking an Anabaptist church. Trying to seek a better life often results in disappointment (and this raises the question of why people in ultra-conservative churches often leave them for a less conservative church). Rather our focus should be to pursue Christ, how to share him with those who are lost, and how to worship God in our daily lives. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you."

I grew up around a heavy "homeschooling" type of culture where a lot of people were into "homesteading" as well. I feel the focus on us as Christians reaching the lost often seemed to play second fiddle to trying to create some kind of perfect family life at home. Looking back, some of the families that put together a "conservative" home life, got horses, chickens, goats, cows, had big gardens, for whatever reasons dressed their girls in jean skirts, etc. etc. seem to be very lost now. I feel like the emphasis on the things that come first in the kingdom of heaven may have been lacking.

I'm sorry you had to go through this experience.

[cooper]

Essentially, the seeker has to basically decide the ultra group is the One True Church, shut their mind off, and just believe whatever the leadership in that group says. I don't think this is a

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

[Soloist]

I am often not enthused about the idea of seekers just packing everything up and moving to a new area, especially a plain "stronghold" like PA where the culture is very strong and they aren't accustomed to having to deal as much with outsiders. (That would write off where I live in Ohio, too, although my family has lived in the area I am off and on for generations, so I feel comfortable here.)

I’m not interested in them either. I’m far more interested in groups that have moved out of their comfort zone.

But actually maybe it does… the video shows people who ‘have it together’ with good marriages, well-adjusted children, holy lives… and that’s what we wanted & what we thought we were getting.

The issue is… we think we somehow will get that yet we weren’t raised like them nor do they know how to disciple us. If we don’t put in the effort, we won’t be the family we are with envy looking at, which is a sin that then causes jealousy and then anger and hypocrisy.

[Ken]

But actually maybe it does… the video shows people who ‘have it together’ with good marriages, well-adjusted children, holy lives… and that’s what we wanted & what we thought we were getting.

It is very easy to put on a good show for the cameras.

But I have yet to meet any family, let alone a whole group, who doesn't have the same sorts of trials and challenges as the rest of us.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Just in general, once the bishop’s daughter (a married lady in her 40’s) was talking to me, with me crying over not being “allowed” to see my oldest daughter, who was staying in a place for plain girls with issues. (She has medical issues & her medications cause emotional side effects, to kind of over-simplify it.)

Anyway, the bishop’s daughter told me “What they really want to see is that you’re *completely* broken and will do *whatever* they say. Once they see that, they’ll let you join and it won’t be like this anymore.” (Meaning they’d ease up then.)

She had more perspective, having married a man “from the world” who became Mennonite.

That was a very hard time for me, and our whole family.

Just to let you know, I am from a non mennonite background as well. I joined about 9-10 years ago, and am currently part of my churches ministry team. My wife and I get along quite well there. We are in a moderately conservative church, part of a conference that has an above average record of welcoming seekers.

That being said, I know Nationwide fairly well, and I would not have made it in that setting. In our setting you have to comply with the written standards that are clearly spelled out (And my wife had a struggle with the wedding ring...) but the expectations are generally within reach.

I cannot fathom a parent not being "allowed" to see her daughter. We would regard that as being out of bounds. There are boundaries, and that oversteps them. Some very conservative churches are willing to step over them more than less conservative ones. I suspect that if you ever give it a try again, I would second Robert's suggestion. If you want something more conservative, there is BMA and Keystone. But IF I walked into your situation, with what is effectively an ultraconservative church, I doubt I would have lasted as long as you.

[Josh]

Essentially, the seeker has to basically decide the ultra group is the One True Church, shut their mind off, and just believe whatever the leadership in that group says. I don't think this is a

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Well, we are upfront about the OTC belief system, as opposed to covertly operating that way but claiming we don't.

But even for members who are from a seeker background, keeping your brain turned on and having a variety of opinions is encouraged. Whilst there's a time to submit to leadership, the absolute obesiance that some groups require is not present in my group - and I am very grateful for that.

Unfortunately GG's story is one I have heard before and it is disheartening to hear of people treated that way.

[Ernie]

Your point in the second sentence is a valid one. Charles Hamilton mentioned this in an interview some years ago. I have not ever heard this myself but I can imagine it being done. You can read the interview here. https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... y-Lawn.pdf

It doesn't boggle my mind because I do it all the time. (I don't buy clothes for a single use and then not wear them again.)
But the thing of dressing for the occasion is simply a "respect issue" in my mind and I would grant any seeker the same thing as long as the attire did not go against biblical principles.

When my grandparents were alive, it would have been offensive to them to not participate in the pledge of allegiance, reject the American flag and so forth. Those things were important to them. Yet we would expect a seeker to give that up.

I would call those things going against biblical principles. Examples of things that would not go against biblical principles in my mind are, skipping church to attend the occasional family event, (no, I don't think this is neglecting the assembling of ourselves together), placing flowers on a grave, women praying before a meal, etc.

[Ernie]

This seems accurate and is one of the reasons I am not entirely comfortable with ultra-conservative groups. Essentially, the seeker has to basically decide the ultra group is the One True Church, shut their mind off, and just believe whatever the leadership in that group says. I don't think this is a particularly healthy way to think or live, and it doesn't really line up that many people who are seekers are actually nonconformists - they have spent their whole life refusing to be conformed to what the world and its authority figures want, so why would they suddenly do a 180 and just shut their brains off and do whatever their new authority figures tell them?

And how is this different from your church?

[Josh]

What doesn't make sense is that if someone believes it's OK to dress a certain way, not dressing that way in front of their grandparents. That just doesn't make sense to me. It almost seems deceptive actually what they do.

[Josh]

This seems accurate and is one of the reasons I am not entirely comfortable with ultra-conservative groups. Essentially, the seeker has to basically decide the ultra group is the One True Church, shut their mind off, and just believe whatever the leadership in that group says. I don't think this is a particularly healthy way to think or live, and it doesn't really line up that many people who are seekers are actually nonconformists - they have spent their whole life refusing to be conformed to what the world and its authority figures want, so why would they suddenly do a 180 and just shut their brains off and do whatever their new authority figures tell them?

And how is this different from your church?

We don't require people to be "broken" who will then immediately say they believe whatever the leadership tells them they should believe.

We also are not sneaky about being an OTC group. A lot of ultra type groups (and many other churches) effectively believe they hold the exclusive truth, but won't come out and actually say this. But in reality, it's what you have to think and believe to be a successful part of the group.