Bunny Trails

[temporal1]

In my opinion, for what it is worth, I think you are probably both right. I think the presence of gay priests and sexual abuse in the institution is not an expression of liberalism. Neither is the attempt to hide it.
I would say when the institution moves to accept and normalize gay priests and the potential for sexual abuse.....
that is an expression of liberalism.

^^imo, fwiw, i understand it to be political+politicized secular liberalism, and secular activism.

The recent folly and heresy by the Pope is not surprising.
In many ways his ruling on “blessings” is out of the Vatican II playbook. Allow something with supposed clarification.

The liberal side will run with it.
You will see wide open blessing of gay marriage that looks just like a wedding mass on some places.
The conservative side will scream and condemn it….and be ignored.
The neo-con will be upset that this is wrong then reconcile it with Paul loyalty by saying “the Pope did not mean you could do THIS. Folks are breaking the guidelines.”

I have never doubted the reality there will be an “end times”, nor quick to say I am living in them.

I have detested this Pope since his election and have always felt we will never know why Ratzinger resigned.
I am deeply thankful for familial roots that offer an escape route to the Orthodox.

It is also good to know that be you Jewish, Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anabaptist or Protestant the reality of an Antichrist system is still something you face. Picking the “right church” does not change the reality that like salvation, persistence against joining the Antichrist is an individual battle line for each of us.

Your church and beliefs will aid you, but membership is not any guarantee.

^^i appreciate your pov, choice of words.
i can’t say i detest the pope, but most often disappointed. At 87, i often wonder if, or to what degree, he’s manipulated?
however, his history reflects his general path.

i believe you will find a general consensus on forum wrt your words (in bold).
example: “God has no grandchildren”

others may like it or not, the pope and RCC deeply affect a lot of the world.
not all populations are “wild+independent” as in the U.S./West. (i believe true in all Christian denoms.) the comfortable+entitled are not known to represent the most faithful. as scriptures warn.

C.S. Lewis described pride as the greatest sin. To revel in it can’t lead to Truth. These are grave times just in that one way.
https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/resour ... -humility/

[Ken]

In my opinion, for what it is worth, I think you are probably both right. I think the presence of gay priests and sexual abuse in the institution is not an expression of liberalism. Neither is the attempt to hide it.
I would say when the institution moves to accept and normalize gay priests and the potential for sexual abuse.....that is an expression of liberalism.

My own opinion is that they will normalize married priests first and then women priests second BEFORE they ever normalize openly-gay priests.

But that is only a guess of mine and I don't see any of that happening any time soon.

[temporal1]

It is also good to know that be you Jewish, Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anabaptist or Protestant the reality of an Antichrist system is still something you face. Picking the “right church” does not change the reality that like salvation, persistence against joining the Antichrist is an individual battle line for each of us.

Your church and beliefs will aid you, but membership is not any guarantee.

A favorite passage:

Matthew 24:41
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-41.htm

40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come.…

I would say when the institution moves to accept and normalize gay priests and the potential for sexual abuse.....that is an expression of liberalism.

The homosexual political bloc now has tremendous power+resources, legal prowess, they do not sleep. They form/exploit alliances when/where they can. Make no mistake about the core and its objectives.

[JayP]

A few comments on the recent posts.

First, understand (this is a factual point, not an opinion), the topic of priests "not being allowed to marry" is absolutely open to change in that it is, and always has been where practiced, a DISCIPLINARY rule. For example, I have been in parish where both priests had been married. One, a protestant convert already married, and the second who was ordained late in life after his wife died.

We can debate the merits of the idea, but understand it is not a 'changing of the religion', nor in no way a contradiction to the past.
Just as the 'model' Mass liturgy has been officially changed a few times in the history of the RCC.

Second, it is impossible to underestimate the power of the "Gay Mafia" within the RCC. Personally I have no doubt the Pope is a member. Notice, unlike JPII "majestic" pilgrimages back to Poland, Francis has NEVER returned to Argentina. He is hated by the bulk of the Catholics there.


Acceptance of "gay marriage" in any form, and this "blessing" is the door opener, could easily lead to a true schism in the RCC.
There is no way to compromise between this aspect of Modernity and the traditions of the Church.

[temporal1]

Thanks.
i’d heard of these exceptions for married priests.
i appreciate your clarity, even sensing the pain involved.

Scriptures warn of pain on earth. If not for clarity, it would all be so much worse.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The recent folly and heresy by the Pope is not surprising. In many ways his ruling on “blessings” is out of the Vatican II playbook. Allow something with supposed clarification. The liberal side will run with it. You will see wide open blessing of gay marriage that looks just like a wedding mass on some places. The conservative side will scream and condemn it….and be ignored. The neo-con will be upset that this is wrong then reconcile it with Paul loyalty by saying “the Pope did not mean you could do THIS. Folks are breaking the guidelines.”

I have never doubted the reality there will be an “end times”, nor quick to say I am living in them.

I have detested this Pope since his election and have always felt we will never know why Ratzinger resigned.
I am deeply thankful for familial roots that offer an escape route to the Orthodox.

It is also good to know that be you Jewish, Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anabaptist or Protestant the reality of an Antichrist system is still something you face. Picking the “right church” does not change the reality that like salvation, persistence against joining the Antichrist is an individual battle line for each of us. Your church and beliefs will aid you, but membership is not any guarantee.

Liberalism has been around much longer than this pope. Ever hear of “Liberation Theology.”

[Judas Maccabeus]

A few comments on the recent posts.

First, understand (this is a factual point, not an opinion), the topic of priests "not being allowed to marry" is absolutely open to change in that it is, and always has been where practiced, a DISCIPLINARY rule. For example, I have been in parish where both priests had been married. One, a protestant convert already married, and the second who was ordained late in life after his wife died.

As to the widower, there has never been a bar to such, as a priest promises celibacy not virginity. The celibacy begins with his vows.

You DO know that eastern rite catholic priests are frequently married? They normally marry before they are ordained.

[Ken]

A few comments on the recent posts.

First, understand (this is a factual point, not an opinion), the topic of priests "not being allowed to marry" is absolutely open to change in that it is, and always has been where practiced, a DISCIPLINARY rule. For example, I have been in parish where both priests had been married. One, a protestant convert already married, and the second who was ordained late in life after his wife died.

As to the widower, there has never been a bar to such, as a priest promises celibacy not virginity. The celibacy begins with his vows.

You DO know that eastern rite catholic priests are frequently married? They normally marry before they are ordained.

The few married priests (and it is a small fraction of 1%) are married converts from Anglicanism. They are able to become ordained after a long process due to a provision put into place by Pope John Paul II back in 1980. It takes years and is only available to Anglican or Episcopal priests and at the end of the process still requires a special dispensation from the Pope.

[Josh]

Ken,

You are aware of the around two dozen particular Greek Catholic Churches, aren’t you?

Only the Latin Rite churches don’t allow married priests.

[Falco Knotwise]

Excellent talk setting the framework for understanding what is going on with Catholicism and Christianity in general.
Paul Vanderklay is a Protestant, but he talks to two Catholics about the debacle over the rainbow blessings, so this is an interesting discussion.