Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[Josh]

A reasonable question to ask is if it’s OK to try to starve out 2 million people, 1.5% of whom are militants, and many of whom weren’t even born the last time the country had elections. I would hope we can agree the answer is “no”.

[mike]

Was Hamas democratically elected as the government of Gaza, in free and fair elections?

When it comes to war and peace that isn't particularly relevant. Putin wasn't elected in free and fair elections yet Putin led his nation into war in Ukraine. And it is a war that a majority of Russians appear to support.

In fact, when it comes to war and peace, it is most frequently non-democratic nations that plunge themselves into wars of aggression: Nazi Germany, the Japanese Empire in the 1930s, Russia throughout its entire history from the Russian Empire, through the Soviet era, to today. The Confederate States during the US Civil War. And today, pretty much every single war in the middle east: Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. etc. None of those governments waging war were democratically elected in free and fair elections.

The fact of the matter is that Hamas is the de facto government of Gaza and according to opinion polls, has the support of a majority of Gazans. Levels of support that are at least equivalent of the levels of support for the Democratic and Republican parties here in the US. And when they chose to wage war against Israel, they took the rest of Gaza with them for better or worse.

None of that excuses the METHODS that Israel is using to wage the war that they found themselves in. But it does explain WHY a state of war exists between Israel and Gaza. It was a war of choice launched by Hamas on 10/7.

It matters for the claim that Hamas is not Palestine, and that all Palestinians should not be made to suffer for the actions of Hamas. If the Palestinians chose Hamas as their government, and Hamas' actions including the 10/7 attack are supported by popular opinion, then it's sad that they are suffering because of Hamas, but I don't have quite the same sympathy for them as I would if Hamas was a rogue government or if they achieved power by non-democratic means.

And yes, none of this excuses anybody for engaging in violence or retaliation, I am opposed to those things in principle.

[GaryK]

A reasonable question to ask is if it’s OK to try to starve out 2 million people, 1.5% of whom are militants, and many of whom weren’t even born the last time the country had elections. I would hope we can agree the answer is “no”.

Of course it's not okay, which is probably why Israel has just allowed 100 trucks of aid per day into Gaza. The question is, will this aid benefit the civilians in Gaza or will it end up in the hands of Hamas, who seem to have little regard for the civilian population there.

[RZehr]

I think that Egypt should allow Gazans to find refuge in Egypt, and give them food and aid. That is what many countries would do. The USA and the EU both are offering to help with the costs - which again, is something more than the oil rich, fellow Arab countries are willing to do. They have an 8 mile border with Gaza. But Egypt has rejected a humanitarian corridor across the border. Hamas is such trouble makers that Egypt wants nothing to do with them either. Egypt would apparently rather see suffering and a humanitarian crisis unfold in Gaza, than lift a finger to alleviate the situation.

[Bootstrap]

Hamas which is the de facto ruler of Gaza wanted war with Israel. This is what war with Israel looks like.

But Hamas is not the civilian population.

Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire; Hamas and Hezbollah Unpopular Among Key Arab Publics

And at the same time:

Israeli poll finds 49% support for holding off on Gaza invasion

[Josh]

A reasonable question to ask is if it’s OK to try to starve out 2 million people, 1.5% of whom are militants, and many of whom weren’t even born the last time the country had elections. I would hope we can agree the answer is “no”.

Of course it's not okay, which is probably why Israel has just allowed 100 trucks of aid per day into Gaza. The question is, will this aid benefit the civilians in Gaza or will it end up in the hands of Hamas, who seem to have little regard for the civilian population there.

100 trucks of aid is not enough for 2 million people.

[mike]

A reasonable question to ask is if it’s OK to try to starve out 2 million people, 1.5% of whom are militants, and many of whom weren’t even born the last time the country had elections. I would hope we can agree the answer is “no”.

Apparently those 2 millions of people give popular support to Hamas. So it doesn't really matter whether they were born after the 2006 installation of Hamas in power.

None of this makes starvation or violence an acceptable tool for Christians.

[Josh]

I think that Egypt should allow Gazans to find refuge in Egypt, and give them food and aid. That is what many countries would do. The USA and the EU both are offering to help with the costs - which again, is something more than the oil rich, fellow Arab countries are willing to do. They have an 8 mile border with Gaza. But Egypt has rejected a humanitarian corridor across the border. Hamas is such trouble makers that Egypt wants nothing to do with them either. Egypt would apparently rather see suffering and a humanitarian crisis unfold in Gaza, than lift a finger to alleviate the situation.

In the past Egypt fought wars with Israel over control of what is Gaza now. Israel won, so the territory is theirs.

I don’t see why Egypt should have to take care of Israel’s problems now.

[RZehr]

I think Israel should stop attacking. Give it a break. And let food and medical aid, etc. in.

[RZehr]

I think that Egypt should allow Gazans to find refuge in Egypt, and give them food and aid. That is what many countries would do. The USA and the EU both are offering to help with the costs - which again, is something more than the oil rich, fellow Arab countries are willing to do. They have an 8 mile border with Gaza. But Egypt has rejected a humanitarian corridor across the border. Hamas is such trouble makers that Egypt wants nothing to do with them either. Egypt would apparently rather see suffering and a humanitarian crisis unfold in Gaza, than lift a finger to alleviate the situation.

In the past Egypt fought wars with Israel over control of what is Gaza now. Israel won, so the territory is theirs.

I don’t see why Egypt should have to take care of Israel’s problems now.

I thought Gaza was its own nation? If so, why should Israel take care of Gaza anymore that Egypt should?

Fact remains, that Egypt does have a land border with Gaza that Egypt controls - not Israel.

If Gaza is an open air prison, Egypt is 20% of the prison guards. And as anyone knows, a prison with 20% of the perimeter unsecured, is not much of a prison. Egypt could do that.